I had that same thing happen and it was so frustrating. They only help passport patients, then they won’t serve you if you go to another psycho social program other than their pathetic therapists and doctors. Can you tell I’m jaded?
The whole system doesn’t serve the consumers very well and in my opinion takes advantage of them at every turn. I cannot imagine how anyone can get help on their own without an advocate. But don’t give up. Your brother is worth it and he is lucky to have you. God bless you.
Where we live, family members are allowed to file a “field petition” with the court for evaluation for inpatient or outpatient treatment.
I tried to look at the California laws a little bit at The Treatment Advocacy Center website; it seems like Californians might not have the same options for inpatient evaluation, but outpatient has a little flexibility.
From an earlier article I posted, it seems possible that the county SF is in might have “opted in” to these outpatient commitment laws (in link). Crossing my fingers. If that is the case, it says you (sibling) can file a petition for outpatient treatment with the county mental health department.
We all have to keep trying and looking for ways. I agree with Mom2 about keeping notebook and documenting in case your family member is evaluated.
Its been a hectic week. I called a mobile crisis team to evaluate him at his home, but they said he wouldnt answer the door or pick up his phone. His therapist called today to say sorry but theres nothing they can do if he doesnt want to take medication for pneumonia. I dont know what “gravely disabled” means in california but I do know they are waiting for the worst and then Ill get help. His therapist keeps asking me to call their family partner, and its so insulting, I just want her to evaluate him and talk him out of his delusions and she spends more time trying to tell me to calm down. I called NAMI in SF for resources and they left a voicemail saying they cant help with my brother not taking his medication??? I dont understand why every call this week has ended in “sorry I can’t, we can’t”. This is by far the worst experience and if I could move out of this country with my brother I would. I think if there was such a thing as an MIW the lawyer would have told me about it. She said I can present an AB1424 document to police (which they didnt even bother reading). California is outrageously negligent. I got all the books and resources, but its just 110% work on my part now instead of all these professionals who could help him and are barely doing anything.
What’s sad is, the professionals are not helping your brother because there are so many people with serious mental illness and so few resources. Professionals seem to shove away every person who has not carved into their own body to extract microchips in the state where I live. Unfortunately, there are many people who are so incredibly ill, they can’t pretend not to be long enough to be shown the door.
You are absolutely right that people should be treated before they become acutely symptomatic, but that is generally not the case (unless the person accepts voluntary treatment, which would of course mean that they weren’t extremely ill).
Yeah these professionals do not come cheap. they take 250 per hour AT LEAST. My brother has mentioned multiple times that he will take those chips out of his body to show me because he wants to prove it. Its scary that I am waiting for this to happen. I have started lucid dreaming more because of the stress.
Maybe you will like your NAMI class because there are ways to communicate and relate that keep the relationship close. It’s really good to have time together that doesn’t have to do with illness or pressure to be treated. I understand that you are basically in an emergency situation right now due to his pneumonia and I hope the NAMI chapter can point you to some specific resources. They might not do this in the class itself, but approach a teacher and ask who to contact.
The main reason all of us are trying to care for our family member with sz is how much we value, respect, and love them. Fearing for the safety and well-being of a loved one and being unable to get help is stressful beyond description.
Therein lies my frustration, I have a perfect relationship with my brother, he vents to me about all of his delusions and we talk about it. I can go out with him to dinner movies anytime. I am his case manager and talk to all of his doctors and employer manager. So now I am being told-- 'oh read all these books that will help you to help him get treatment by saying this and doing that and not doing this and not saying that. When its not my responsibility to fix him. I already convinced him to go to CBT therapy and Psychiatry, its THEIR f* job to help him overcome his fear in his delusions. Hes been going to Pdoc’s and therapists for 5 years.
I am doing my second masters degree in peacebuilding, so its not like I’m unable to understand the complexity of the situation. I am just pissed that I have to pick up 6 more books to read about therapy techniques when the one job I never wanted to do was counseling and therapy as a professional. I am fully enraged at the treatment that my brother has received in California.
I have recording upon recording and text of all his delusions and I cannot even surrender them to the therapist and doctor. WTF?
I am being told to just lie and say he is violent or suicidal … but everytime i do things like call the police or mobile crisis, I loose my brothers trust. I am fully depending on these professionals and they are not only letting me down but also ruining the great relationship I built!
I already told my doctor I need a counselor because this madness is pissing me off and I cant concentrate on my thesis.
The Nami classes are in January, I dont think my brother will last until then. Something is bound to happen and I am suppose to go on Holiday for two weeks out of state. I am preparing my mom for a crisis situation.
I apologize that I didn’t know your history and suggested the books. It sounded like it was a new development. I agree the system makes it hard to help someone until something happens. I think we all have an enormous amount of pressure on us but we have to find ways to deal with our frustration and take care of ourselves too.
Dear Freedom88, Since you have a good relationship with your brother, you are doing everything you can. You don’t need to read books about communication if you are communicating well.
I hope you do find a counselor who can actually help you. My counselor had a family member with sz and has been through all of it, the not getting help, the help hurting more than it helps, the finally getting help, things going well for awhile…
It’s good you have all these phone numbers and resources to give to your mom when you go on your well-earned vacation. Perhaps find a contact among the social workers and other providers who will speak with your mother and walk her through crisis procedures if a crisis does arise?
I wasnt meaning to directly get mad at you about the books, theyve been suggested for months by NAMI and such. I have picked up 6 ( I am going to read them) I got technical ones about therapy techniques.
Yeah It just strikes me as odd that hes not improved one bit and he goes to therapy often. Nami suggested alot of stuff like peer groups and music therapy since he plays guitar. I will start working on things like that after the new year
My son went to therapy for the past few years - and tried lots of different therapists. They were patient with him and tried, but I finally had one explain to me that he just wasn’t capable of therapy in his current state of mind and that either he wasn’t taking his meds or they weren’t working well enough - and that’s what we needed to be working on.
Hopefully, we just found the right one. I just wanted to put that out there for you as an explanation as to why the therapy alone might not be helping much. Of course, I do believe it’s way better than doing nothing.
yeah that makes sense, but my goal was for the CBT therapist to get him to overcome his fear of medication or get him hospitalized because his delusions are getting worse. I was relying on them to help him get better so that he will be released back to work. His plan was to lie through his teeth that he had no symptoms and he did get released back to work Early Nov and now I have to tell his manager every week why hes not showing up. Its awkward and they cant fire him legally until he makes a big mistake so now its just a waiting game. Im so dissapointed that someone whose delusional and hears voices cant get access to services because they are not suicidal or violent yet. #nightmare
I know you said you didn’t want more links & more books, but I have one that I’m still digesting.
If you haven’t read this one, give it a try. It’s pretty short too.
It’s called I’m not Sick, I don’t need help by Xaviar Amador. It not only walks you through steps to build a better relationship with your loved one, but it shows you ways to work with him so that you can find reasons together that he should take meds or get into treatment even if he won’t agree that he’s ill.
Maybe in his case, it’s his ticket back to work?
I’ll be honest & say I’m struggling with the techniques because I’m normally very direct with people, but it gives you kind of a backdoor into their world and shows you how to form a partnership.
Lots of people have really good luck with it - maybe it will help you too?
EDIT: It also has a chapter that explains that at some point the brain changes in such a way that the ill person physically can’t recognize their illness - even if they agree they were sick in the past. It’s not denial or stubbornness - it’s a symptom of the disease called anosognosia. I had heard that term a lot in the past, but this book did a great job of explaining it.
I was just venting about the fact that we have to read these books instead of the professionals just doing their job. I still have to read them and implement them so I still appreciate anyone’s suggestions.
I have that book and I will try whatever it offers. I have accepted his illness, my problem is the poor treatment hes getting from the professionals.
I don’t know if this will help you there, but have you tried your county mental health department?
I stayed away from ours for years because we had good insurance. I thought it would be like a clinic with endless waits and sub-par treatment.
So far, it’s been the best thing I could have done for him. The people there really care and have bent over backwards to help him. Some things take awhile, because it is a government agency afterall, but over the past year, he’s gotten a case manager who is determined he will get the treatment he needs - she said they deal with people there all the time who can’t see that they’re sick and don’t want to take their meds, so they have people who know all the tricks to getting it to happen.
The crisis team there was the ones to send him to the hospital on an involuntary this last time.
I also like that they see you right on time. The endless waits at the psychiatrist’s office where we were going before were incredibly hard on him.
The crisis team didnt want to bother helping him because when they went to his place he didnt answer the phone or the door and they asked me to take him to the ER. SF county will be a difficult route, everytime I mention that he has Kaiser insurance they just say sorry we dont accept that.
We hear you and no offense taken. As someone else pointed out, we found out about anosognosia from this group. I have yet to hear any one of his five pdocs use that term. His doctor calls it denial and recently lack of insight. I think we are all frustrated that this is their profession but they often seem to be behind the times with medicine only approach. It might be quick but it isn’t better.
The therapist said shes sending her nurse to see him at 5 pm (in four hours PT). He looks better because he was barely walking on friday, but he has other symptoms like fevers and sweats at night and still coughs and has some trouble with short breaths. He lost his apetite so I have my mom bring him food, he doesnt eat otherwise, he wont order or go to buy food. He wouldnt take the uber to pick up the new antibiotics so I know hes not taking them. I think he may be afraid to leave his room. He has to go back to work monday unless the doc clears him for more time off, I planned to take him to ER sunday if hes not 95%. He can still infect people if he has a cough, id be pissed if someone with pneumonia showed up at work!