When I heard the news about the Reiner’s horrible murder at the hands of their son, it immediately struck home. Billy stabbed my mother in a psychotic rage, and she almost died from her injuries.
As soon as I heard the story, I thought he must have been schizophrenic. When I saw a picture of him on TV, and saw the raw evil in his eyes, and the way he shifted his eyes around when he talked (lied), I was even more convinced. Then they said on the news yesterday that he had been hospitalized numerous times for treatment of schizophrenia.
When I was watching the clip of Mr. Reiner with his son, it reminded me so much of my family. My father loved Billy so much and always had false hope he’d get better, in spite of the truly awful and cruel things Billy kept doing. Mr. Reiner was obviously very invested in his son’s well being, a noble and understanding, but hopeless position. The tragedy and futility of it really struck home for me.
Now they say he probably won’t stand trial for second degree murder. They say he probably won’t be able to understand the charges against him. Sigh. Billy stayed out of prison several times for the same reason, and eventually gained his freedom every time. Of course he offended again and again, and I have enormous guilt for abetting this dubious legal process.
I don’t know what the answer is. I always read that schizophrenics are not dangerous and it makes my blood boil. They kill their families with no warning! Isn’t that dangerous? They are horribly dangerous to even be around; Billy was 100% guaranteed to hurt you or cause you major problems if you gave him a chance. He was extremely dangerous to associate with! What am I missing here?
I’ve got to admit, I really hoped that the forum would close without us losing another set of parents.
Our journey at NAMI’s Family to Family class started with the loss of a set of parents, the mom was taking our class and talking openly about her son’s life with schizophrenia. Their son lived with a dual diagnosis, (schizophrenia and a meth addiction) and killed them both with a sledge hammer. The police that were called to the scene initially thought they were looking at some sort of gruesome Halloween decoration.
But, I believe, we have to be realistic and not play the “evil” card. The totally clueless public will be doing enough of that as they hold their witch trial for Nick Reiner. Another part of the public is usually blaming guns - when a gun isn’t available, a knife or a sledgehammer or the marble candlesticks will do the job.
When my son’s cancer was late stage, due to his cancer being aggressive and that he participated in several research trials, he developed bone and brain mets. I was struck by how similar the brain mets were to psychosis. Not a scientist, but not clueless either, it was easy to see that the pressure on the brain from the brain mets was similar to whatever happened in Mike’s brain due to his schizophrenia.
The “evil” or “black” eyes - as often discussed on this forum, are the fully dilated pupils reacting to the intense fear or emotion caused by the brain disorder. A fight or flight reaction.
I am sorry about how your life was affected by your brother’s brain disorder. I am sorry for all of us. Nobody did anything to deserve schizophrenia playing a part in their life.
You’re missing that the majority of schizophrenics are not dangerous. A schizophrenic is more likely to be a victim of violence than be a perpetrator. It’s sad that most people don’t know anything about schizophrenia until it is in a sensational story like Rob Reiner and his wife and then they assume that all schizophrenics are like that. I’ve had schizophrenia for 47 years but it doesn’t make headline news that I’ve never laid a hand on anybody and that I’ve worked most of the last 44 years.
When a schizophrenic does get violent it’s usually for one or more of these reasons : 1) He/she is not taking medication, 2) They had a history of violence before they became schizophrenic or 3) They are abusing alcohol or drugs. If those three things are not true for a schizophrenic then they are no more likely to commit violence then the general population. It’s sad that you equate ‘evil in his eye’ and lying with being schizophrenic. I understand that your experience with your brother was bad and he was violent but don’t be like other people who are ignorant about schizophrenia so they stigmatize them because of the rare gruesome murders committed by a minority of schizophrenics.
In that same Family to Family class, we had a sister of a man with schizophrenia who often used similar wording. She would exclaim “they all do this” or “they all are like that”. To me, a newbie, she didn’t make sense because what she was saying didn’t match up to our experience.
I think it’s hard for people to understand that schizophrenia isn’t like chicken pox. By that I mean, there isn’t a set timeline or a set line up of symptoms. People struggle to understand the spectrum factor of schizophrenia.
NAMI did cloud the water as our Eddie points out by putting too much emphasis on the nonviolence of medicated people with schizophrenia. Even Dr E Fuller Torrey took umbrage with their stance as being dangerous to family members who were dealing with those rare people with unmedicated or med resistant schizophrenia who did present a threat for violence. Unfortunately, when violence does occur, the family members are often the victims.
Yes, someone living with schizophrenia is more likely to be a victim of violence. Worse yet, they are even more often victims of negligence. Society ignores us and our family members. Perhaps we are inconvenient to society’s reality.
And when the violence happens outside the family circle? The caregivers are blamed for knowing brain disorders were involved and not having done anything about it. Here we are in 2025 and still our family members with serious brain disorders are the most disenfranchised people in this country.
Being a family member/caregiver is a life long learning experience that no one wanted to sign up for and is an endeavor of love. What has been unique about this forum is that all of us have had to help people being at various stages in their journey, over and over. It’s a process for everyone involved.
Another sibling here. You’re not missing anything if this is what you observed and lived through with your brother. I believe you. All siblings need to be listened to. Which makes me wonder: what will Romy, Jake and Tracy Reiner say? I want to hear their assessments. Will what they say matter in court, if it comes to that?
Most parents are devoted to helping their offspring with all the strength they have. We are wired to do that. When you bring someone into this world, you feel a sense of love, responsible and stick-to-it-iveness that is off the charts. I say this as a mother myself. I get it. And I saw it in my mother, toward my brother.
But siblings can be more impartial. We both love/like (or want to love and be loved by) our ill siblings AND YET we are designed by nature to want independent lives as well, which is the healthy pursuit. We tell it like it is because we have to. Even if we’re involved in care, we fight for our boundaries, we fight for our time, for the very oxygen we need to grow up amidst the trauma of serious mental illness (adjacent.) We fight to cope, to live, to care and also to go on as individuals.
You have been consistent and believable in describing the overall violent nature of your brother on this forum. I sympathize with you and I haven’t even met you. On the other hand, my brother, diagnosed decades ago, while he could flip out any day—yes, it’s possible—likely won’t. I would rate the odds of that now as very, very low. He is calm, gentle…a struggling victim of a brain disorder. I hope people who know me in life or who’ve read my comments all these years believe me there. As I’ve said before, my view would change if he came at me or showed a violent tendency, but I see no signs of that.
Surely there is sorrow and fear in the hearts of other parents right now. I also give a quiet, sad shoutout to Romy, Jake and Tracy—and all siblings.
Hey, I wasn’t discounting or downplaying your experience with someone with schizophrenia, I’m just saying it doesn’t help to paint all schizophrenics as violent. Your brother sounds like he was a bad seed but I know plenty of schizophrenics who are just scared, isolated, people trying to survive a disease that robs them of much of what is good in life. I can see why you have your negative views of schizophrenia but we’re not all alike.
Agree. Far more “normal” people, mainly men, commit acts of violence and mass murder. But it’s sad when those with mental illness are all painted as potentially violent. Based on descriptions of his past, I suspect the Brown and MIT shooter also was on the SZ spectrum and probably untreated.
When I saw them on TV, my heart went out to them. Their journey of anguish has barely begun.
I wish I could express my sympathy and concern to them. I’m probably not far enough into my journey to help them; I can’t even help myself. I’m still confused, frustrated, ashamed, heartbroken. I will probably die that way so another life has been wasted by this horrible affliction.
One of my most favorite coworkers is schizophrenic we had worked together for several years we used to take smoke breaks together (I haven’t smoked in years now)
We would have great conversations about music from the '60s especially the Beatles and always talk about the weather he was a very positive person and always brighten my day!
He played in a band he played guitar, I know he lived on his own and he had a long-term girlfriend.
One day he handed me a brochure and said I wanted to give you this it was a brochure about schizophrenia and he said I have this disease and I just wanted to let you know. I felt honored that he would trust me to open up that much.,
This was long before my brother had ever been diagnosed, he began symptoms in his teens but was not even diagnosed until his late 30s
I do think it’s very difficult when news headlines like this come out, I can’t imagine having schizophrenia myself when the headlines like this come out it would make me feel so nervous that I was being painted that way.
Each case is so individual and if people are uneducated about the disease they’re likely to run with any stereotypes that are put out there.
With that being said unfortunately there are a lot of cases of both violent and nonviolence schizophrenia.
Yeah, I knew nothing about it when I got diagnosed at age 19. Since that was 1980 before the internet, even after being diagnosed I did not know much about it. The internet really helped me learn a lot about it. If I had never gotten diagnosed with it most likely I would still not know a lot about it, it doesn’t come up much in normal conversation.
Because of my sons condition I do not have ANY knives in my house what so ever. I am very cautious with him and this condition. He is stabilized on medication and I still don’t let my guard down. I protect myself in every way possible and it’s sad I have to be this way with my own son but this is with good reason. His car has a kill switch if he gets erratic he will be stuck and the car won’t move. The car is equipped with GPS I know where he is at all times. He has no access to money either so if stuff hits the fan he will be stuck and can’t get near me. His house is equipped with cameras and I know when he comes and goes all for safety. There have been times I’m at odds with him and so terrified that I booked a hotel just so he won’t know my whereabouts to be safe. We cannot play around with this illness and let our guards down. Praying for the safety of everyone on this forum who has a loved one with schizophrenia.
I guess there’s a lot more going on than you are saying here, I obviously don’t have the background and the course of your son’s disease. I’m a big guy and my family has never been afraid of me and I’m fine with that. It’s enabled me to do lots of social things with them and their friends and my sisters spouses and children.
I remember when I was in my first group home and unmedicated and the counselors had a locked box in the pantry that contained all the kitchen knives and I was the only person out of 7 people who they entrusted with a key to the box. I’m not unique, I’ve had friends who were schizophrenic and lived with other schizophrenics who I was not afraid of for the most part. When I was around them I certainly did not live in constant fear that they would ‘snap’ and hurt me. In fact, they were much nicer than the friends I had before I got sick. I am much more afraid of so-called normies then I’ve ever been of schizophrenics.
Again, I’m not in your shoes and I’m not downplaying your experience with your son, maybe you have good reason to be cautious around him. I read all the stories of the schizophrenics who commit mass shootings or murder someone but it is foreign to me to have people afraid of me. Sometimes people are afraid of my size but there’s nothing I can do about that and once they get to know me they see I am harmless.
I hope you find someone, professional, clergy or fellow sufferer, to help you evntually overcome these feelings. We all deserve happiness and peace and freedom from remorse.
Thanks. I talked to my doctor and he said that at my age it is highly unlikely for me to develop mental illness, and that it’s perfectly normal for me to feel the way I do considering what I’ve been through. We talked about my family history and he said I’m in the clear.
At the time I was preparing for surgery (took more than a year) and it was just a low priority for him. And since the surgery the doctors are quite interested in my ongoing recovery; it’s always an MRI or CAT scan, or pumping me full of dye and putting me on the treadmill, etc. They’re very proactive because most people have a poor prognosis after this surgery (most people have it in the emergency room), and I am the exception so far. Priorities, you know.
I’ve come a long way and I’m just facing the facts now, trying to get it out of my system. I exercise (mandatory) and cook healthy meals, which helps my outlook a lot. I’ll bring it up again but now there’s a lot going on when I see the doctor already.
Yes, I’ve heard the “bad seed” comment before. It might be true. I think he was probably messed up pretty much from birth.
Even when he was very young, you could see something wasn’t right about Billy. I only realize this in retrospect, because when I was a kid I was sincerely confused by the reactions my parents had to Billy. At the time it seemed to me that they just let Billy get away with everything, while they were very strict with me. I was three years older so when I was 7 Billy was 4 and at that age it’s a big difference. Many times I was shocked at what he was getting away with. I would be very harshly punished for the same infractions. What I didn’t realize was that even at 4 or 5 years old, Billy was manipulating my parents- it was very blatant- and they were capitulating! And when we were older, the theme was “he’’ll grow out of it.” In fact he grew into it- he became a hideous monster. And he also orchestrated a loyal army of flying monkeys his whole life, which still amazes me. And by the time he was diagnosed, I was in college and I was still blindsided regularly by his antics. In fact, I was blindsided multiple times after he died and there might still be some special surprises waiting for me (I hope not).
What I’m saying is that Billy was an undiagnosed psychopath, and he was born that way. He didn’t even have a concept of empathy in other people. When he killed people (“involuntary manslaughter”) he never had a shred of remorse. He did however revel in other people’s misery; he would laugh uncontrollably at other people’s misery.
People would say “I just met Charles Manson.” I mean a lot of people made that exact reference when meeting Billy. It’s not just me.
I don’t doubt you at all. But for me, there is irony in your comment. Schizophrenia has left me isolated, trying to survive a disease that has robbed me of so much of what is good in life, so much of what I desired, so much of what I’ve worked for. And it’s because my brother suffered from it. He made sure I suffered from it too.
Well, with those explanations I can see why you might have a bad opinion of schizophrenics. Billy sounds like he went through life unchecked in his actions and wasn’t held accountable. He never should have got away with wrecking your life, I hope you can somehow recover and get something you want out of life.
Maybe you were too nice to your brother when he didn’t deserve it but hopefully you can use that niceness now and get along with people and build yourself up to be a good person. Not everybody, even schizophrenics, are as rotten as your brother. He’s out of your life for good and hopefully, maybe with the help of your family or a good therapist you can move on and recover from the damage he did to you.
You say you’ll probably die confused, frustrated ashamed and heartbroken; I wonder if it has to be that way. Just speaking from a schizophrenics perspective, (and as a recovering addict by the way) I’ve seen people make miraculous comebacks in life when everything looked bleak and hopeless but they came back and some went from being outsiders and living in the underclass to making great strides and maybe becoming good citizens and better people to making some great accomplishments. It’s possible.
I don’t want to make this about me, but I got schizophrenia at age 19 in 1980 and I’m 64. I got dealt bad cards and I could be bitter and depressed about all the opportunities that I missed out on and weren’t available to me and I could be frustrated and heartbroken about never having a wife or raising a family but I had some very good years where I worked hard and socialized a lot and was fairly content. I consider myself lucky that I’m out of the hospital and I’ve been able to work and travel. And non-violent by the way. And become a relatively good person. As long as you’re breathing you can change.
Thank you for saying this so eloquently. My son has Sch and has never been violent but has been ridiculed and victimized by so called “normals”. What the person above didn’t mention which the articles on Rob Reiner’s son repeated was that Nick fought years of drug use. He was clean a short time but was “acting strangely” at a party that night as noted by someone there. That most likely meant he had taken some drug. Tye worst thing someone with sch can do is to take drugs. And BTW - anyone without a mental illness who takes meth will do crazy stuff! I don’t like how the news blames the illness, not the drug use.