So true. First we help them learn how to walk and now we have to help them walk away if possible into the real world. So hard.
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I wonder how to act and how to talk to my 24 yr. old paranoid schizophrenic son. I have been pretty good with talking in a calm voice and explaining things when he gets paranoid. More of a problem is what he can do like hobbies, housework, etc. He walks around pacing always bored but every suggestion I give he does not like. He just wants to go for car rides, get food and go to park. I have another son and I have other responsibilities. It is stressing me out. He won’t do chores for money, no friends, says he has trouble reading, cannot keep job and does not drive. Any advice?
I understand how stressful it is when your son won’t do what you expect him to do. Are there any programs he could engage in such as a peer support group? Sounds like he needs some friends and then he could expand his interests/ activities.
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My daughter doesn’t read much at all anymore. She used to like reading young adult novels, and doing art. However, pretty much she just watches TV now. I got her to start taking walks with me nightly over a year ago. It was very rocky at first, but now it is a regular (happy) nightly walk. She even seeks me out for the walks. Sometimes to get a change in behavior, it takes many nights in a row of the same question until finally the answer is “yes” instead of “no”.
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It is so hard as a parent not to interfere, so hard not to watch our kids struggle without intervening. We think we know what is best for them. I know that he can’t afford to rent a room on a (very) part time job. He wants to travel to Europe but has very little money. He gets angry when I try to protect him or support him, wants to be independent, but he hasn’t figured out how to move out without our help.
I think I have also been guilty of trying to “take care” of things that he needs to learn to do on his own. I need to find the difference between “Mothering” and “Smothering.” Perhaps he needs to fail. I only hope that some of his poor decisions don’t end up causing him harm, but the alternative of keeping him in a cocoon isn’t realistic and would make him angry.
The things I wish for: That he go see a Psych doc, at least try meds for a while, go to regular therapy to work on his social anxiety and anger issues, try to get a job so that he can afford his own place
( which he desperately wants,) go to events where he might meet people who share his interests, quit smoking etc. But these are my ideas, not his. He usually does not ask for my advice and when I give it he resists.
I do have some control over: setting limits that when he gets triggered and angry, I will not engage with him and tell him that I need him to go cool down or I will leave the room.
And if I am feeling overwhelmed by his constant talking and verbally processing what is going on in his brain, I need to say, “I need to take a break now, I can talk to you later tonight” or “I can only talk for 10 more minutes, than I need to have some quiet time.”
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@Crushd, yes it is very hard to step back, I have stepped back quite a bit from last year and the years before. I now actually “stand up” to him when he gets angry with me for no reason or blames me for things that were out of both of our control. Surprisingly this new approach is working better than when I used to apologize and kiss his butt for everything.
His rent is currently $800/mo, he gets $750/mo in SSI, so there is a shortage I make up each month. Also additional money needed for things like food and utilities. I just recently started giving him an allowance for good behavior (keeping his apt clean, showering, brushing his teeth, and just generally for exhibiting respectful behavior). He also has this grandiose idea that he can “make it” on his own with $750/mo, because he no longer wants to be dependent on me. I commend him for that, but I’m trying to make him realize that would be very difficult. I really think he hates being @ my mercy, and that’s when the anger sets in. He also just recently started looking for a job. I’m hoping someone hires him before he gives up and reverts back to just sitting in his room all day. I think that would make him feel less like a loser, and would be good for his self esteem.
So I understand you and your son 100%.
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What is it about the anger and rages , i don’t understand why the anger ? its so hard to talk with my son most times , today he raged at me for not wanting to call a legal aid lawyer to sue his doctor , all i said was that you need to handle these things on your own in such a gentle way and he bullied me and forced me on the phone with a lawyer who heard his rage and she hung up and he flipped out at me and i left his apartment immediately feeling harassed . I txted him how hurt i felt and 2 hours later i get a txt from him saying thanks mum for the food it was delicious i love you , as if nothing happened .
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Hi @Linda, I was actually going to create a new thread regarding anger. Honestly I sometimes don’t know if it’s from sz or if it’s just him. My son has ALWAYS had underlying anger issues most of his life. If he didn’t win a basketball game or football game, he would either cry or flip out. Very very hard to deal with from a very young age. Maybe I spoiled him too much?
With sz kicking in, it worsened. So now, I just watch him as he spews his anger at me, and say something calming like “I understand your point, however …”
I refuse to always agree with him.
I no longer apologize so readily and quickly, I try to remain calm and let him do what he feels he must. I also know this eruption will be short lasting and he will calm down fairly quickly. Then he’s back to “love you mom”.
I will be his rock as long as he allows, but I will not be his punching bag. It’s a very delicate balance, I want to show him how much I love him, but I also need to show him I will only take so much before I walk away until he’s calmer. People with sz are not dumb, they are extremely smart. He knows when I’ve reached my limit.
And I mentioned this in another thread, but I feel like the more I want him to do something, the harder he resists. Like he wants to be in control. So be it. I find reverse psychology works a lot better with my son. I have to act like I don’t really care that he doesn’t want to do certain things (they have so many different options for him at his psychiatrist’s office-and he refuses them all). It bothers and frustrates me, that he refuses to try these good programs, but I just can’t show him that.
I hope your son is eating alittle more, and if he isn’t, act like that’s fine too. It’s very hard.
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I completely agree. My husband has been a lot kinder to me (despite his ongoing paranoid beliefs regarding my intensions) since I started letting him know how his positive vs. negative behaviors towards me make me feel. And when he is angry and hostile, I leave the room to do something on my own (which frequently leads to him missing my company and seeking me out).
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I completely relate to all what you wrote . He is now asking me to make him all kinds of different foods and he is eating what he believes is good for him on that day . Its very hard in-between work to cook what he believes is good for him on that day but i try my best and cook away as long as he eats . I did exactly what you wrote , i stopped asking him every day if he had eaten , it was making me have anxiety . Now he asks me mum what can i eat ? he is still very skinny but now i know he eats healthy even though in small portions .
I feel the same as you about his anger issues and it could be from being spoilt and bullying me but now with schizoaffective disorder its 10 times worse so i really understand you , its crazy !!! i learned to walk away or hang up the phone and i know he will calm down an hour or two later and txt me either sorry or i love you mum . I feel as when he is cursing and raging he has no control and regrets it almost as he is saying it . My son too refuses therapy and if i dare to mention it he will Rage at me so i don’t . I was also told that if they have no insight than therapy won’t even help ! Its so sad and hard to watch the day , weeks , years go by when i could do so much to help if he would let me…
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there you go… it works… keep an overnight bag ready, stay the night in a nice hotel, eat 5 star… enjoy… setup a gang bang with 4 or 5 young studs… lol
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I am sorry you are dealing with this! My son can be the same…sometimes I feel like he alternates rude sentences with apologies. It is hard for them and for us!
Im sorry too , i don’t understand it and i want to try and understand him but i guess an altered mind must be so frustrating for them and us as caregivers too .
Yes. I had an interesting conversation with my husband earlier this week that was very helpful. Part of the struggle for me is dealing with his lack of trust in me.
Physical safety aside (which have not been a concern for me for several months, as he is much less volatile now), the most challenging part of all of this for me is knowing that he believes I am actively working with his “enemies” to cause him harm.
We were able to talk about this and although he certainly cannot “feel” trusting of me on command, he really got that his behaviors towards me make a big difference. He felt quite bad that he has been causing me pain and I can see that he is making efforts to act in loving and positive ways towards me, even when he is not feeling that way in the moment.
It helps me a lot to see that for him, love and trust are two different things, and that he can love me dearly even while not trusting me, and that he loves me enough to do his best to behave well.
I do understand the differences between love and trust. I have a sister with schizophrenia whom I love dearly but whom I trust not at all!
But it is harder for me when it comes to a spouse. If I thought he was conspiring against me, I would be out of here in an instant! But clearly it works differently for him.
I guess it touches on the complexity of “insight”. At some level beneath conscious awareness, this mistrust of me must feel different to him than if I had actually done something to deserve it. And at the moment, I guess that has to be enough.
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I believe if my son lived with me i may have the same problem of him not trusting me in that way … we have a much better relationship now that he does not live with me . Thank Gd for my wonderful family who helped me buy a condo for him to live in 5 min from where i live , that way i can keep an eye on him and breath too if you know what i mean .
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Some thoughts on this. Some of this comes down more to simple proximity. He can’t really interact with ‘them’, so the material ‘facts’ or clues as to what ‘them’ are up to can only be experienced indirectly or from within his mind. And explaining the source of this ‘knowledge’ can get increasingly tortured or implausible.
That’s why you get far fetched explanations like broadcasting or receiving of thoughts or messages transmitted by the TV, radio, Internet, implants or from voices. Much easier and more plausible that people you interact with are ‘in’ on the conspiracy. So maybe it’s the mail carrier or the shop attendant, or even more plausible someone on the ‘inside’ like a caregiver. And the more contact you have with someone, the more ambiguous words or actions can be misinterpreted as suspicious.
For me my conspiratorial thoughts were always evolving and my trust in various sources of information or parts of my narrative waxed and waned. I’d thought I’d always couched my suspicions as hypotheticals, but my mother said she felt accused of being ‘in’ on the conspiracy from time to time. I don’t remember it that way, but one of us misinterpreted events, so I told her I was sorry she felt that way. That’s why I advocate talking about feelings rather than facts, you can’t argue emotions and the discussion leads to understanding of where miscommunications and misperceptions lie. Another way to defuse some of this is to live apart, as others have noted.
As far as trust goes, I think this can be more malleable for people with SZ, because of the power dynamics. A caregiver might be their only compliant social contact with the world or source of food or shelter etc. You’d likely only be ‘out of there’ in a breach of trust, because you are confident you can make it on your own. Another reason may be they can’t always be certain that the source of their suspicions is true.
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Anger. I think those of us who are closest get the brunt of it. My son is so frustrated that his life isn’t working out, that he doesn’t have a girlfriend, good friends or a career in film and acting. He tells me he wants to know what I think. I tell him, “It is your path, you need to figure it out.” He gets upset and says, “You’re my Mom, you should be able to tell me what you think.” I say, “Whenever I tell you what I think you don’t want to hear it.” He cajoles me until I say what I think “I wish you would work with a therapist on your anger and social anxiety, and a doctor to talk about meds that might make it easier to deal with things.” Then of course, he gets angry. Why do I play this game?
I’m wondering if it’s time to switch instead to talking about how things make both of you feel. That you don’t like to be around him when he’s frustrated and angry, so why should a potential girlfriend or other people that might help him with his acting and filmmaking goals. That he rejects and devalues your suggestions without even trying them, etc.
One thing I learned in therapy was to try and channel anger into more productive outlets. It’s been said that grief is love with no place to go. Anger with no place to go projects outward as rage, and inward as depression. For me at least, if I focus on feeling better then I think better, people react to me more positively and I get more of my goals accomplished.
Because if this, I have a reputation for being cool under pressure and people respect me much more than if I project anger. I’ve had two subordinates at work quit because they were angry and frustrated that people respected me more than them, and they aspired to similar status. In the end I was more amused by the irony than frustrated when their final act was to walk out and quit without notice in a huff, because they weren’t being treated or respected ‘professionally’.
Maybe now’s the time to bust out the Buddhist teachings and apply them to the situation at hand.
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That’s what my therapist said. Tell him how you feel. The part that is tricky is then taking it a step further to say, potential girlfriends, room-mates, coworkers etc won’t want to be around him either. And do I tell him that the idea of moving to New York when he only has $700 is not realistic or just let him try and fail.