Hopelessness


#1

My Mum was diagnosed with Schizophrenia and after many suicide attempts succeeded.

We have been aware of our daughter having issues for a number of years, she is now 20. We sent her to a private Psychologist who said she was more than he could deal with. The health care system here is over taxed. and they labelled her as narcissistic and attention seeking to explain away the self harm…cutting and bulimia, which made no sense as she hid it. She simply did not want to comply with the medications or participate in the therapy. They told us not to try to stop her cutting because it helped her not do worse things.

I won’t describe the injuries or the trips to emergency…but they’d stitch her up and send her home. My beautiful girl, is scarred beyond belief.

Last month, after two, what she refers to as “practises at dying” in a week, which involved surgery to put her together, we refused to let her come home. We told them that if she was safe, put her on the street and that if she dies we will be going to 'Current Affaii’r blah blah blah…She was formed and has been in a psychiatric unit for a month.

She believes the universe is unravelling and that she is an angel (I should be able to see her wings if I looked more carefully), She sees the world disappearing and has massive panic attacks as the ground vanishes before her eyes. She thinks it’s her job to stop time from unwinding and that if she dies she will come back in the past and be able to fix things. She has not been formally diagnoses with “sz”.

Now that she has been ‘formed’ they have made her comply with medications. (anti psychotics, anti anxiety and anti depressants) It’s been a month and the above was what she told me yesterday. She is vegan and is being fed lettuce and steamed vegetables so I go in everyday and bring her some real nourishment. I feel like I am visiting a criminal on death row and it’s only a matter of time and I will find her like I found my mum.

I think I can’t cry anymore but everyday I do. This is beyond my worst nightmare.
I need some hope…how do I find it…how do I help her live?


#2

Focus upon Hopemoreness.

Do not let assumptions of what is taking place override the actual truth of the situation.

Note that if you are capable to be able to see the complete truth of what is occurring, then you are also able to see the complete truth of all reality, meaning you are able to see the complete truth as to why things are as they are.

Many a folk can not see such truth, thus they are taken advantage of and are deceived.

If you simply accept that which “SEEMS” to be, then the problem continues onward forever.

Up relates to Down. Left relates to Right. And…Truth relates to Lies. How can the truth win unless you are willing to truly see the lies at work, and thus become able to overcome all of them ?

What is going on here is an attempt to keep you from the truth, thus in turn such horrific problems go on.

And…most obviously, my heart goes out to your precious daughter.

The so called experts, the psychiatrists, are confined to expertise in the field of psychiatry. Thus if the problem at hand extends to the point of the absolute, rather than a mere confinement, which by the way it does, then they are of no help at all to resolve such a problem.

Your daughters mind is being toyed with from elsewhere. The “elsewhere” takes much much time to describe. If you accept that her behavior is merely nothing but her own, then those in the “elsewhere” win and your beautiful daughter loses.

I hope that an unconditional love between you are your daughter, and your daughter and you, can be revived.

Work together. Break ALL deceptions. Do not let the world tell you what is,…instead, see the truth together.

What is black?

Black is that which relates to white !

What is evil?

Evil is that which relates to good !

Do you understand ?

Both must exist or neither can exist.

Only your effort can overcome that which is the outcome of the evil at work. Forget about the ridiculous spooky version of evil and good, here what we are talking about should be done so in a technical real sense.

The secret…is hard work to see the truth !


#3

I had to go through a very similar circumstance with my daughter. This may sound cliché, but you must hope for the best and prepare for the worst. You have done your job as a mom very well. Now it is up to the doctors and your daughter. Let her know that you believe in her. I understand your anguish and I am so sorry for you. Visit this forum often and rely on the support others offer. Also, the National Alliance for the Mentally Ill(NAMI) may have resources available to support you. Take care. You and your daughter are in my prayers.


#4

Thank you introbc and lucyinthesky for your responses.

Introbc, my daughter and I love each other. I am not totally sure of your meanings at times.

The shared truth aligns in some parts, such a that she is in hospital, that she is vegan, that she is in emotional anguish etc.

However it can not be the total same truths, when she sees things that I do not and wishes to end her life because of it. I do however offer her my support for how hard it must be to feel the way she does. I understand that truth is simply what I believe until something comes along to change my mind, but until I see her wings and see the cracks that are appearing in the universe, her reality is her own.

Lucyinthesky, sorry you had to go through this too, it’s just too terrible. I appreciate the kinds words and will follow up on the resources you have suggested. Appreciate the prayers, hope yours go answered.


#5

there are last resorts. There is a medication called Clozapine which is reserved for when all other medications fail, and it has an incredible reputation but it has a potentially lethal white blood cell altering side effect. If her doctors cant find a regiment of meds that works, there is always Clozapine. Blood tests are administered weekly when someone takes it.

What country are you from? the docs sound like theyre just scared of her, which is incompetent. I was only convinced i was scz after an evaluator who specializes in treating criminals and tough cases evaluated me and gave me a firm talk. He knew that I was in denial and headstrong, but he wasnt phased, he visits convicts on death row. I finally admitted that I was insane and i began to improve after that. You might want to find someone who does evaluations, they did the trick for me. I had to have “proof” that I was insane, and he had me look at the results of the MMPI-2 (a 550 question inventory commonly used in the military) and I still remember how it went the day we discussed the results.

He asked me if i was ready to see the results and i said “what, I know I’m a little crazy”. He said “No, you’re very crazy. Take a look at what this test says about you.”


#6

I don’t know what to say except I’m so sorry you and your daughter are going through this. The extent of her self harming is heart breaking. I’m surprised that you were advised to not try and stop her. Have you looked into alternatives? Other things that she can do in place of. Ice cubes on the wrist or wherever. Snapping a rubber band. Writing in red marker where she wants to cut. Writing out her feelings. I can’t think of anything else. Self harm is not attention seeking. My understanding is that it’s a way of coping with internal pain. To have this and psychosis on top of it, I can see where you would feel hopeless. My daughter used to self harm and my son has sz. While in active psychosis he has had similar beliefs. Good for you for making them pay attention and keep her. Don’t give up hope. The right medications and therapy can make a big difference. I don’t know much about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy but I have heard good things about. A psychiatrist or therapist that has a better understanding of self harming. Sending love.


#7

Hi Mortimermous and BarbieBF, I appreciate you taking the time to respond. Sharing your stories, giving your suggestions and well wishes is appreciated.

Mortimermous, I was reading about how hard it is for people with sz to recognise how unwell they are. I am glad you had that moment of clarity that lead you to a healthier path. My Daughter has had a few screens and has been told that “she’s complex”. I live in Western Australia.

BarbieBF, the strategies for reducing self harm were tried and with some success. I thought she was getting better until the psychosis came.

She was going to day therapy but was resistant to behaviour therapy sessions. They decided not to do anything until she was willing to co-operate. It was so frustrating as clearly the lack of insight was why she wasn’t co-operative.

I had a read of the site that Lucy suggested and saw that there is some link between diet and development of psychosis. Makes me wonder how much of her eating disorder may have contributed. She is a vegan now, she did that to to control the bulimia. Binging fueled her guilt and gave her a reason to cut. Will have to have a chat to her about suitable supplements.

It’s been a month on drugs, she is talking more but seems to be at her most delusional.


#8

i just wanted to say i care, and i hope your daughter can find some peace .
take care


#9

It can take time to find right meds and for the meds to work. I was hospitalized for 6 months and I wasn’t okay until 4 months after I had been released. Don’t rush it, it takes the time it takes.

It’s good that you visit her and keep contact. When the meds are working she can remember the delusions and be very sad and ashamed. Just be there for her if that happens. You can’t “fix it” for her, she has to go trough it and find ways to manage it her self.


#10

It’s very hard time for you, I had some of characteristics of your daughter, I thought that i am the savior of world and such things that I percieve as angels and devils are part of my mission to deal with, I was living in horror and severe pain( that I thought is the pain of humanity that i should bear to free others from pain) and this severe pain made me seek medical attention and not those horrors and… I think she were religious in heart and had some interaction with bible and spiritual affairs, however taking meds is the only way to cure her in first step without that you can’t imagine the second step which is reconstruction of mind of her( which now is interpreting anything to reinforce his philosophy as being and angel and saving world), you must make her believe that these meds are attempts of our ancestors to help her to be succesful in her mission or sth like this to make her take her meds and otherwise ECT is the only way left to clear her mind and make her numb mentally to make her take her meds, the danger of ECT is really lower than suicide, and at last if you like tell her that you have found another guy which is in a same mission as her and i will talk to her to convince her to take her meds regularly and maybe reconstruct her mind, being alone is like poison for her and i know that no friend talks to her anymore because of her illness so talking to someone who understands her is vital, other members with the same story can be a great help too. finding the right meds for this illness takes time cause there are many different antipsychotics with different results so begin the game of different doctors, she is at the edge of suicide so dont let her feeling hopeless and make her believe that others are helping her to reach to her goal and that she is very important person and without her guidance others dont know what to do for saving the world and… any help, I’m ready


#11

I was pretty ill with schizophrenia and alcoholism. I’m pretty well now, I guess.

It is odd to me how families share journeys with each other. That is, I believe in rebirth. I pretty much understand why I chose a life of such illness, but I wonder when I come back as a healthy human being and become a parent myself, what kind of challenges will I have?

I’ve been pretty critical of the kind of care I received. But now that I am more well and trying to help other people, I imagine how I fall short myself.

It helps me to embrace the concept of Mystery.

Jayster


#12

Hearing the words of hope, encouragement and advice has helped lift my spirits. While I am sorry that you have all suffered it is nice to know that we are not alone and that recovery is possible.

I don’t know how to help you, but I am indebted and grateful for your kind words.


#13

I bet that was the hardest decision you ever had to make. I’m glad they kept her so they could get her stabilized. But I just wanted to say it took a lot of courage not to just take her home and muddle through and have even worse things happen.

My parents didn’t WANT to put me in hospital. It wasn’t because they were tired of me or they couldn’t be bothered. It was just the opposite. I needed far more help then they could begin to provide.

When I began to stabilize I was SO angry with them for putting me in there. I really hated them for a while. I resented being in hospital since by the time I hit the anger phase, I was convinced I was 100% cured. (I wasn’t by any means) It was very hard for my parent’s to do, but they didn’t yank me out and take me home at the first little sign of stabilizing. They made me stay for the whole time. Now that I can hold a job and I’m living in my own place and I’m mostly lucid, I am so very grateful and I can’t imagine how hard all this was on them as well.

I just wanted to warn you, there might be an anger phase as well. But it will also pass. Visiting, keeping the line of communication open, reassuring that you still love her is going to be a huge help to her weather she shows it or not.

There were times I was a huge butt head to my parents and even went so far as to refuse to see them, but they still stopped by and left socks and other small nice items and it was finally dawning on me that I was pushing away the ones I should be embracing. It took a long time, but I did get my head out of my butt.

Good luck, stay strong and stay hopeful. I’m rooting for you and your family.


#14

Lack of insight does cause quit the catch 22. Without insight medications are not wanted but without medications it’s hard to get insight. It sounds like you and your daughter have a good loving relationship and that may be what you will have to build on for compliancy. I don’t know if you have heard about LEAP.
http://www.leapinstitute.org/ - under resources are free videos on using LEAP
LEAP is a way of communicating to build trust. Listen-Empathize-Agree-Partner.
http://dramador.com/ - Dr. Xavier Amador is a clinical psychologist whose brother had schizophrenia. He is the founder of the LEAP Institute. Wrote the book: I’m Not Sick I Don’t Need Help! Can buy from his website
If you search Xavier Amador and LEAP on youtube you will find some long videos.
Using LEAP helped me a lot with my son. Once I tried to get him to go do blood work on his own and he told me that he was doing it for me so I had to go too. I went. I believe that regardless of what is going on that children do have it in them to want to please their parents so if you can find a common goal to work towards then you can start on a road to recovery. A rocky road yes but with a good foundation it can get better.
My knowledge of self harm and eating disorders is minimal. My daughter is currently not self harming in the technical sense however I just found out she has gone vegan (she lives with her dad). I blog and follow a number of girls with eating disorders and guilt filled binges can be so hard on them. It seems to have more to do with negative self image. Seeing what their mind sees rather then what we see. Some things you can try regarding diet. I just told my daughter that if she isn’t going to eat meat then she needs another source of protein. Nuts are good. Walnuts I think are one of the better ones. A small handful a day. I try to make a lot of salads with spinach and cilantro/coriander for my son. A vitamin supplement and Omega 3 if she is open to it. Vitamin waters are also good as you can get them in different flavors. To much gluten is apparently bad for anyone so I just try to limit how much bread products we eat. If your daughter does eat bread then there a lot of different kinds out there now rather then just plain white.
Keep telling her how much you love her and how awesome and strong you think she is because she is strong for still being here. Don’t ever give up hope. 8 months ago my son had a chronic marijuana addiction. Phrases like treatment resistant and worse case we have seen in this hospital. Rarely was he med compliant and was getting admitted every 4-6 months. He came to live with me 8 months ago. He went 8 months between his last two hospitalizations. His last break was in September and currently he is doing the best that he has in years. We have what I call little hiccups but he is med compliant most of the time. Hang in there.


#15

SurprisedJ, thank you for sharing your story. We did do just what you said not to do when our daughter was first put into psychiatric care for self harming…we thought that now we know we could fix things. How stupid we were.
Next time around we told her she needed to be there. She was angry and felt betrayed and dumped. When she was released she just kept things even more hidden.

This time she has confided to us about her aim of “reincarnating” . We have a family psych appointment (this Thursday) and will share what she shared with us. I know that she will lose trust in us…but I know that the alternative is far worse…It is really nice to hear how, with clarity you know how much your parents cared.

BarbieBF, her dietary needs are complex, funnily enough after following the links listed on this thread I found one about omegas role in psychosis. Had some vegan ones in the cupboard and had to “sneak” them in tonight with her “protein”. (I took in some Bvits and they wouldn’t give them to her without Dr permission). Her iron levels were so low they gave her a blood transfusion.
I have been reading up on how to talk to people with delusions and am most interested in reading more, so I will definitely follow up your link. Thank you for sharing it.


#16

Ah Scarlet, my heart goes out to you, it really does. My brother and both of my sons have schizophrenia, and this is a difficult path to walk, indeed.

It’s hard to know why some people are walking this path. I believe it is a combination of physical and spiritual factors, along with occasional complications resulting from poor thought patterns – “stinkin’ thinkin’.” In other words, perhaps a brain difference, issues with the gut, immune system or other unknown raises the veil between this world and others. To make things more confusing, a lot of what is coming in from other dimensions is deception. Then you add in normal teenage stuff and you have a real mess.

I would be sitting in the corner dissolving in a ball of unending grief and despair were it not for a relatively new outlook I’ve adopted. The thing is, I now believe that we are here for a purpose. That mission may be a very hard one. We are here temporarily – I don’t think this is everything there is. So no matter what happens, it is just a small blip on the timeless screen of our unending existence. No matter what happens, everything will be okay. I really believe that. No matter what.

Hell can certainly exist on earth. Walk through it with your head up. It is impermanent. Don’t worry about the future.

INTROBC is right, in my opinion. Put your focus on seeking the truth. There is so much more than what we’ve been acculturated to believe exists. Let your daughter know you are on the journey with her, and validate her experiences. Whether they are real in the sense you are accustomed to is irrelevant, they are real to her. My younger son finds great comfort in the fact that I believe him, and tells me that. Otherwise, it would be a very lonely experience for him, and even more scary.

I can relate to your feelings about the hospitalization. Entities will put thoughts in my son’s mind about hurting himself or others and he will ask to go to the hospital simply so he will be behind locked doors. It’s appalling how nothing seems to really work. Not the meds, not the counseling, nothing, really. And how could it? The professionals are in complete denial about the spiritual nature of this disease. Good for you for being an advocate for your daughter – it sounds like you have what it takes to not be completely taken for a ride by the system.

Re diet, I know that stress can cause these breaks from reality, and not eating is quite stressful for the body, as is not getting required nutrients. My son once had a break when he restricted his calories too much. Keep experimenting with different things to help the physical side of things. That is what we are doing, at any rate. It gives me hope.


#17

Hi Madkitty,
I am sorry life has dealt you a tough road. It sounds like your family is lucky to have you. Do you see any role in upbringing as a cause of people to have mental illness?

I think I understand more of what Introbc was trying to say to me after reading your thoughtful response. I need to be open minded to the possibility that there is more than a scientific rationale to the universe.

I seem to have been hiding behind the door when God or the Gods dished out spirituality. I would be lying if I say I believe in anything I can’t sense, although I will definitely acknowledge that just because I can’t see something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Would love to have some of your faith and just believe.
Cheers
Scarlet


#18

Forgive me for jumping in here… I ponder this a lot. There are a lot of articles and research about early traumatic incident bringing on or triggering sz. There is also a lot of articles in the “genetic predisposition” camp too. I’ve met some people who have had hair raising, abuse ridden, nightmare childhoods and they didn’t do drugs and they did develop SZ.
I’ve met some people who are the very first with SZ in their family. But they to admit that one generation had depression, the next generation had bipolar, they have SZ. I’m not the first SZ in my family, and there are other MI’s in the family as well. But I have a very supporting family and I’ve never honestly suffered at their hands. They were never abusive, they were never unsupportive; so for me it’s definitely NOT how I was nurtured, so it Must be nature.

Thank you for letting me ponder this.


#19

Hi Scarlet, you mentioned self harming, bulimia and psychosis all happens to your daughter. I know all of them are tough condition and they could complicate each other. The psychiatrist or psychologist u get into have general training in mental health problems. But if u want to get into someone with more specialized knowledge and consolidated experience in self harming and bulimia, you can consider looking for a researcher in the university who have a research interest in this area. They probably have more ideas in how to deal effectively with the challenge. They might refer u to someone or something which are more skilled in helping people with self harm and bulimia. Probably there are other people with the same needs they have came acrossed. They probably know more than anyone else.

Surf the Internet for the professor, university, and bulimia/self harm. Read about their homepage and research interest. They usually answer email enquiry. Some universities do provide psychological consultation service. In my old university, I do have a professor with a research interest in bulimia, self harming and abnormal behavior. But I’m in another country. It would be more helpful if you get one in Australia. If u want to, I can still give u the contact and name of my professor. Wish u all the best.


#20

Hi Surprisedj,
Thank you for offering you opinions about my question, your response is appreciated.
Glad you have a support around you.