Family and Caregiver Schizophrenia Discussion Forum

How do I know when behavior has passed from weird to a danger to others


Hello! My brother died on Christmas day. His wife Rene, has been diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia.
I am trying to figure her out and what I should or should not do, or when do I call the authorities for a social services police check.
On the 24th my brother told her he did not feel well, he had sharp chest pains and shortness of breath and his arm was numb. We were 4 hours away and were not planning on coming home for a few more days but I was talking to him on FAB messenger and knew I had to come home and check on him.
Rene is strange. You cant spend more than 5 minutes with her and not know something is totally off with her.
She says she grew up in a Swedish home and has to follow Swedish customs, or she will be shunned. ( there is no family anywhere around her, nor can I prove they even exist.) When he told her he really needed to go to the hospital she said no he had no health insurance because she is paranoid bout spending money and anyone having their info. So before he went he would have to sign up for Obama care ( the online system that does not work). She went to work on the 24th he spent all night trying to get signed up. It did not work. She would no let hi have his phone on on the 25th because she said it was rude to interrupt their Christmas and she had to follow family tradition and serve a 7 course meal. She had herring lobster special salad yada yada. The items she said she was serving are very expensive. I know her well enough to know she limits their grocery bill to 100 a month. So I know it was all made up. At about 4 he was past the point of being able to deal with the pain. So he told her to call 911, she refused. She said they had not had their 7 courses. He called they came and he died in route. We recieved the call, and rushed to the hospital. She showed no emotion. She was only concerned about finding the cheepest way possible to cremate him because she was poor. She just said by to him. I was sobbing. so was only concerned about finanicial issues effecting her. Question, was she so in her own world that she did not realize she was an active part of killing him??? Does it shut emotions off is it a defense mechanism?
We brought her home with us so she would not be alone since she does not drive. I have constant dizziness and seizures from stress. So having her in our home has been very difficult. I planned a memorial I handled the cremation even when I or my family did not want that. No will, I got all the money out of his accounts for her, paid her rent for a year since she was not on the lease and had broken leases due to being committed in the past. I got her phone cards for a year. I handled all paperwork.Taken her to see her doctors 5 or 6 times over qan hour one way. have had her here for 2 full months. Although she rolls silverware at a restaurant on the weekends. So this last week we want to see the atty so I could get her money placed in a trust so that if she was hospitalized the government could not take her money. I was to be the beneficiary and if something happened to me than my oldest would handle it for her.
She went to work after. And then my son and I started to receive bizarre txt messages from her. She told him she did not know him well and that she prove to her why he should be named to settle her estate. that he makes a lot of money but spends more than 30% and that in her culture that is very disrespectful. That she has not seen him give anything back to the land we own and that she has had visits from the Indians that were on it before we owned it. They have said we are cursed because of our neglect. The land is in west Texas in no mans land un accessible by car and is full of tumbleweed and snakes and dirt. She then gave us a story about her being an crop specialists and a bull breeder. Also that she sees my brothers shadow all around her and that he talks to her daily. She said that he said he wants her to come to the other side and that death although violent wont hurt because you will be dead. Next second its a txt that we are not worthy and its is full of how she was raised up in a home where yada yada and we by frivolous things we could take the bus we could sell our clothes and keep 3 outfits that is all we need. Because we have more we are bad. Its full of contempt and you cant follow her. Her messages are bizarre.They are so full of hate that I felt it necessary not to pick her up on the Sunday night. Let her go home on the bus to her own apartment. I felt her anger could manifest into harm towards me and m family. How do you know when one has crossed a line and their thinking is so wrped that they could be harmful and at that point what do you do???
She claims he dad was a aide in the white house and that the Secret Service has been watching her and they told her on the bus, well they let her read a note in a magazine that my brother was not dead, it was all part of the plan, it was faked. ( I id the body at the morgue and at the crematorium. It was him.) She says he is now a secret agent on a new mission. She was also told that if we meaning my house and family did not give back to the land and the land was satisfied with our sacrifice that the secret service had been told that they would need to eliminate us, they are prepared to do so. Do I consider her bizarre world she lives in a threat to our family.
Her clothes were here. She txts several of my neighbors that i had to bring them back, that was all she had. ( they are 2 sizes too small she has safety pins in the front where the zipper broke no bra on a 56 yr old, shirts are stained and torn.) I don’t feel like driving over there wasting my gas to give her a pile of crap! I put 70+ k in her account, she can go to good will and buy 50 dollars worth of clothes. But if i do not is her obsession with her OCD and not letting go of these things something that would send her over the edge. She called one neighbor to come get her and then knock on my door. And then when I answer she will barge in and take her things. She claims I have secret documents, its paper junk, old notebook papers with scribbles receipts to McDonald’s, menu’s. gum wrappers. Junk, but she is blowing up my phone over it. I have ignored her. By doing so am I igniting a rage or doing the right thing.? At what point do i call someone to have her committed??? DO I let the authorities know she essentially killed him by refusing care or his meds and refusing to call 911? Do I point out the lack of care over his death and the obsession with selling everything for money or is this all part of her illness?
Oh she also had her name changed 10 years ago when the “establishment” came to her house and tore it apart nd left death threats and she was placed in “secret” custody and they moved her all around the US. Even if none of this is actually a sign of possible harm to my family I feel she is a mental harm to my health and my families health by the stress she causes. Please offer advise on how I can best handle her.


Oh wow. I don’t know what to say really. But I do have a question. Why did you not do anything when he texted you telling you all this was happening? But if you are struggling you don’t HAVE to look after her. There is help out there.


I can’t imagine being in my 50’s and dealing with that, but it sounds like she’s most likely not taking medication. You said you drove her to some appointments, How is she about going to her doctor’s appointments? I don’t think there’s a need to be fearful of her doing anything to hurt anybody other than herself, especially if she lives alone. I do want to say, that you’re brother definitely stayed with her for a reason though. I imagine he was in his 50’s at least, too. So for the sake of it I’m going to assume he loved this woman, and honestly, he’d probably really appreciate everything you’ve already done to help and even more so if you were to get her the help she needs now. If she’s decent about going to her doctor’s appointments, or really despite whether she is or not, I’d mention something to her doctor’s at the very least. Sending love your family’s way.


Sounds like she is not on medications, and should be in the hospital. Not sure if you should tell police what happened with your brother. Try calling adult protection services. I would not answer her txts.
If you are handling her money, you are responsible for her.
There may be a crisis team in your area that can help get her to a hospital…


She definitely needs help. Don’t think she doesn’t care though. When my dad died, I was convinced he was just lost and I had to track him down, to all kinds of bus stops and train stations and restaurants. Really wiggy stuff. This is just how she is processing her grief. If you think she might actually kill herself, you should get her to the hospital. But as for her actions before his death, it was a crazy and unsafe way she handled the situation, but you don’t nnecessarily know that earlier medical help would have made a difference. Your brother was fully capable of calling 911 if he really thought he was in danger. This is just a really terrible situation, and villainizing a mentally ill widow won’t help your grief.


You are so sweet! I know that he loved he, he was not prepared for all of her multiple levels of delusion and roll playing in them. Such as that the secret service follows her, that her sister ( which she does not have ) sends someone to the restaurant dressed in a ark suit and fedora and he just sits where he has a clear view of watching her. Or that her dad was a top ranking official in the Kennedy admin thats why the secret service still watch her, she has secrets that no one can know. Her claim to being switched at birth w her dads second wife, who said nothing when he came over to her home and took her and then gave her the dead baby and the hospital was unaware of it as well. ( family tells me he was a factory worker.) That her cousin in Sweden made it to prime minister and then was killed. She had to move several times because their government wanted to question the calls that they had made in the weeks leading up to it. Her switching the bags of cereal in the store because the mob knew which she bought and had it drugged so she would have to switch it. Making me loose white cars in traffic because they were following us. 7 out of 10 are a white or silver. Since I posted, she has said and done several bizarre things and I am fearfrul of her coming near my home. I was so stressed by it that it caused my blood pressure to stay elevated it went to 141 over 168 and I was hospitalized. I had a minor stroke. IN a note she sent to the house t my youngest she told hum he has killed a lot of people and that she knows which re enactment swords of my brothers in the garage are sharp and can make you bleed, they can kill you. That this person who she had some weird name of from another nation told her that he was going to remove him. This was all due to her watching him play call of duty. She does not separate reality and real life. She has written terrible letters to all of my relatives about us not taking care of the land that we are cursed because he family worshiped mother earth and gave back we do not ( we let the grass grow too long in front). Its taken me this long to be function able from the stroke. I have not reported her, I am fearful if I do that when she gets out she will retaliate viciously.


Thanks bridgecoment. Sorry this has taken so long to respond. She stressed me out so bad my BP stayed high for several days and I had a mild stroke you can read above. I really do fear her now. I did not answer her messages but that only makes her more scary. She called a friend of mine to go get her and bring her to my house and then ring the doorbell and when I answered to let the friend in she would sneak in and get the things she thinks I am hiding from her. My brother had a locker and my husband cleaned it out she she would not be paying a bill for it and we brought the swords home and his books and papers. Well she says that tehre is proof of all the secret discussions of the Kennedy admin in there and she needs them. Its junk. When I was in the hospital my neuro came in and wanted to know what the triggers where on the constant migraines that caused the BP to stay elevated. I let him read her txt messages and he letters. He said I am dealing w a crazy person, that needs to be picked up and kept in a hospital and given a shot of meds that lasts 3 months to get her under control she has lost it due to the death of my brother. I was surprised that a medical doctor would term her crazy but he was not the only one. I realize its a sickness, I know she needs help. But if I have her committed then she will loose her job and her apartment then when she gets out what will she do? How much rage will she have against my family then??? I was hoping that by showing it to a professional they would then take charge of calling it in.


Thanks CJ. Yes part of me still wants to say you went to work the night before when he was having pains and went crazy when he told you he had to go to the hospital because he had not gotten on O care yet even though he had been trying for over a month. And you did not call when he told you too it took him 20 minutes to call but he died in route. The doctor said if he had gotten in that morning they could have operated and saved him. But the other part of me realizes she is not mentally able to process reality. I ended up in the hospital due to all the stress. (Read past comments on this thread. ) One of her notes which she wrote to my 15 yer old when I would not answer her txt messages full of hate for our family. Was that he has killed a lot of people and that she knows which re enactment swords in the garage are sharp, very sharp they can make you bleed bleed till you die. and then she says that this man, a foreign name told her he is gong to come get my son and make sure he dies because he has killed a lot of people. She watched him play call of duty. She cant separate a game from reality. So I keep the doors locked at all times. She does not have a car but she will try to get someone to bring her over here. If I call on her and she is released in a few months. ( she has been committed before, and she needs up homeless) then her rage will be all the more directed at my family.


Hi Lilly
I think you should probabaly contact the local psych hospital and let them know shes unwell. As for Rene, Id be tolerant and caring and remember shes unwell at the moment and also shes just lost her husband.


If I contact them, I can take them all of the txt messages and the letters and hand them over to them. Can it be traced back to my family? I am so scared she will go after us. She has re inactment daggers at home that were my brothers. There are crazy crazy letters she has written to my cousins and family. So bizarre I have to explain parts of them fill in the spaces with her delusions so they can understand why she is harping on an issue. My psychiatrist who I see for PTSD and anxiety said she is crazy and needs to be put away. She will do harm. And now all I can think about is that pilot who downed the plane. And he was not suspected of being ill. You talk to her for 5 minutes and you know she is off.
I will discuss it with my husband and then call them. He thinks she will get out in 3 months after treatment and come after us.


Also Lilly, I have to tell you not to be judgemental of your sister in law. Schizophrenia is an illness that makes thesufferer act totally out of character. For example I have schizophrenia, and when I was in an episode I spat in my mothers face. But I was ill and deeply regret the fact. I love my mother. It was a regretabole thing that happened.


I agree. She is ill. That’s why I have not had her committed. I cant bear the thought of her loosing the place they lived together and the kind friends she has to watch over her at her place of employment. I know she did not mean to kill him, its extreme OCD that her steps have to be completed, to disrupt that is not an option with her neurological issues. I know there is more than one. But I have to heed the warning signs for the safety of myself and my family. I cant let her in my life because I was her care giver and care taker. But she is 24/7 job and very draining and hateful. I am a fixer, I give till I cant give any more and she drained me. And when my anxiety level gets high I have seizures and my BP gets out of control and I had a stroke.I was hospitalized for a week and now cant drive and almost got sent to a rehab center for a month due to the symptoms of the stroke. She cant do that again to my home. My child needs me to live whole for him. She needs to stay away. I am sorry she is sick, but I have to put us first, when she wont help herself.


Do you know if she has a power of attorney who can get her committed? Sadly, unless she is actively trying to harm herself or others, the police can’t do much, and even then it’s usually just a short-term placement. If she has a power of attorney, or is declared mentally unfit, you can get Medicaid and find her a more permanent placement.

The waiting lists for those places are very long, but she might qualify for a short-term placement during the wait. Research the place you want her to stay though. I have worked at many homes and some are wonderful, and some are horrible. All of them carry a risk of abuse, even the nice places. I have seen abuse that I had to report at every single place I have worked. The good places immediately took action to remove the problem employee, but some just didn’t care at all, and did nothing. So research any place you put her and see what is the best compromise that keeps her safe and gives you the relief you desperately need.


Dear CJ
I actually have power of atty, but I am not sure that I still do. We had gone to the atty to get the paperwork taken care of so I could assist her in any matter. I cleared up past debts on her credit report so that she would be able to get a lease. I worked tirelessly for 2 months getting her things in order. But the trip to the atty set her off. She became paranoid after the visit. There was still money in one of my brothers account, an LLC she was not on it. But I had some paperwork from the atty to get the bank to release it to her. So we went to the bank. They would not, they kept avoiding her questions and said she would have to come back after they checked with legal. I called the atty. They finally released the money but it was to a business account she could not deposit it. So a conspiracy in her mind was born. That’s the turning point here she went from bad to worse. I had been able to talk to her doctors and Social worker she blocked everything.
I had looked in to several homes for her. She refuses to consider them, she is not sick, its just a cover up by the government. Remember she has important info from the Kennedy admin from her father who died when she was 6. ( he was a factory workers) So this cover keeps her safe. Unbelievable I know. But it is very real to her. I have gotten her on every list for affordable housing due to disabilities and all senior housing lists. But there is a long wait and the decent ones that are in safe neighborhoods have interviews. They determine if they need to live in an assisted center. Which she does but she refuses to do so. She is extremely stubborn.
I do believe she can be a threat to our family. Her rage and anger is very high. she perceives we have too much we must of taken it from her trust. ( there is no trust) ( her cousin handles any money from her family). She also says we do not give back to the land, we do not treat the grass right or the plants we are not feeding nature. She has a PHD in conservation and one in agriculture and one in bull studding. If you read any of her letters its grade one at best. She hates we have a nice house and I have my moms things. She despises my oldest has traveled the world. He is a spy according to her My 15 year old is an assassin. ( He plays call of duty like every other kid his age.)


I don’t know how you are managing to handle all that stress and I’m very sorry about what happened. You are doing the best you can. and if you have power of attorney you could hire a caretaker to come and watch her, maybe find a small apartment for her with a daily caregiver to watch over her? If that is financially feasible, then that would leave her in a safe environment until she is safe on medication and recovers from the trauma also learning to manage her psychosis and come back to her self.


You cant live in fear. I would guess that some of her anger is due to her illness. If she were in the hospital for a month ( at least ) she would be a different person. If you have power of atty., you should be able to get her commited. I think having a place for her to stay when she gets out--hopefully around social services, a good idea. The best thing to do is ignore the stuff she is saying to you. Get a CIT trained officer to see her and get her into a hospital. Let her know why you are doing what youre doing. Set boundaries. Let the hospital know everything, and that she has no where to go when she is released.
Please get into a support group for yourself.
I wish you luck!