We are just working our way through this. Despite what I have said, @oldladyblue I will draw the line at being afraid in my own home because we have already lived that nightmare and watching my health continue to deteriorate because then I am no good for my daughter and my husband. While my son is much better, we are going to try and impress upon him the consequences of his choices. We will be providing for him fully so long as he follows the medical plan. If he chooses to use substances such as pot and then he canāt take care of himself, he will have to go to a group home.
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HI Rosie
Iām in the same boat. Itās dangerous for the rest of the family to have my son in our home off his medication. Itās a horrible situation. Can I ask what program you son is in now? We have 30 days to figure out our options before his medication wears off. I agree with you. I feel the same. I have to try to save our other son - his life is being so impacted by this.
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Thank you all for posting here. This is a horrifying decision to make. My son was arrested for attacking his dad when he went off his meds in September. Itās dangerous. Last year, he tried to kill my husband but my dad was there and we didnāt call the police. He ended up in and out of the hospital for 4 months, then came home, agreeing to be compliant, but now refusing to take meds. Heās on a 3 month Invega injection so we have some time. His court date is tomorrow morning. The police were supposed to call us back so we can get him on probation but they have done nothing so I have no idea what to expect tomorrow. This is our first experience with the judicial system. I feel horrible that this is what itās come to. I do understand anosognosia, and he has no awareness of his disease. But, I canāt live like this in fear anymore. My older son lives with us now - heās in college - just to protect us from our younger schizophrenic son. The worst thing is, we know our younger son is NOT getting any better here with us. We need to find an alternative. Any advice is appreciated.
Dear Maggie,
I am sorry for your extreme issues with your violent son. In court, you should be there and vouch with the prosecution and defense sides equally that your son is violent and needs protective measures. I take it he was not remanded to jail for the assault, which is what happened with my son for attacking me.
Probation may mandate continued meds for your sonāmy sonās did. Time to work with your sonās team (caseworker, probation officer, lawyer, doctor, etc.) in order to place him in a supervised setting (if they do not jail him for the serious assault.
Do not feel so horrible that youāve arrived at a court mandate because THAT may be what improves your sonās prospects. When theyāre violent and dangerous the courts can help.
Good luck and check in here on how things go tomorrow if youāre up to it.
Savanna
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When our sonās behavior escalated toward us - instead of ranting and screaming and destroying things in his apartment on our property, he began venturing closer to our home. He would sneak up on the house and scream at us. He began throwing around our outside stuff. We would wake up to find our yard looking like a tornado has gone through with the lawn furniture and decor tossed everywhere. He would do this around the clock - we did feel like we were under siege- having to hide in our own home. He would set off his car alarm - FOR HOURS- we felt badly for our neighbors. We thought the car alarm was better than the yelling because the car was next to his place - not ours.
Next he began to attack the house while we were huddled inside, hiding, with the lights out so he couldnāt see us. We were working out our escape plan if he broke in. When he threw a heavy rock at me (Its picture is on one of these threads) I had a clear view of his face and realized that he was totally lost in his episode. There was not a doubt in my mind that he would have hit me with that rock had he been able. Lucky for me it was granite and he couldnāt throw it very far. It landed just 2 feet short of the glass door I was behind.
I knew then he could no longer live here. He already had ssdi and ssi and SNAP- he could afford to live somewhere else, not live well thatās for sure. We told him had to move out and we bribed him to leave.
In case you werenāt on the forum then, yes we did call the sheriff for help after he threw the rock. The deputy told us there is no law against being crazy and since our son rented the garage apartment he had a right to be on our property. The deputy suggested we evict our son.
The deputy did offer to talk to our son. He knocked on his door and when our son didnāt answer the deputy left. We went back to hiding.
The sad part about this is that I still feel so sad about saying āviolentā. My son is the nicest, most peaceful and kind person. He used to be so funny and everyone always described his as ājust a nice, nice personā. I hate this disease.
Thank you for your comments. I agree. Thatās why I called the police that night because iām hoping they can mandate treatment. He doesnāt have a āteamā. He only has us. Refuses to go back to his psychiatrist. We donāt have mental health court here but Iām hoping they do something. I will check in tomorrow. Thank you.
Iām so sorry Hope. How awful and frustrating. Itās so sad. Thank you for sharing your experience. It sounds very similar.
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My son is as well, thatās the heartbreaking part. Our sons before scz would want their family to be safe from their brain disorder.
In this business we have to make hard decisions and then live with them. Stay safe, keep your family safe the best you can. A good forum friend disappeared from this forum after posting her son was threatening them. I keep hoping she is taking a break, but I know there are other possibilities. Sometimes the psychosis does follow through on the threats it makes.
You are welcome maggie, take care.
@maggie My son recently went to court for a speeding ticket and resisting arrest/obstruction of justice. Itās a long story - his court date was originally last year sometime. We finally had it resolved a few weeks ago. They dropped the speeding to reckless and dropped resisting but charged him for obstruction of justice. The judge gave my son and several other people that day a deferred sentence AS LONG as they stay with there mental health program. One kid had to get a MH eval. My son, for example, has to stay on his medication and meet with the probation officer and doctors for a year. If he stays with the program, he stays out of jail and after a year it all goes away. There was an inmate there getting sentenced and my son did not like the look of that guy. I remind him - hey that guy could be your roommate. Fortunately, at the moment with the Invega my son is on board with the program. If he did not have the court ordered meds he would go off of them. I am planning on discussing lack of insight with him over the upcoming months. I hope you are able to get your son something similar.
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I would start with nice notes like, Do you want anything from the grocery store?
In interacting with anyone we are going to have the best relationships if there are ten good interactions per one that is directive or even a conflict.
The first time I gave my family member a list, that did not go well at all. Now I am more relationship focused. And the house rules are for every person in the house and my family member can contribute to it.
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We have a dual diagnosis situation: sz & addiction to pot. Initially, when he was home and things were at their worst, his doctor told me that if I could get him to go the emergency room and have the attending doctor call him, between the two of them they could order a 3 day pscyh hold in a psychiatric hospital. So, as horrible as it was, I tricked my son into going to the ER and he ended up in the 3 day hold. From there, every time we were asked where he was going upon discharge, I said the Rescue Mission or a Treatment Program. So, after much agony, he agreed to go to treatment. I didnāt give him the option to come back home. So he went through the Skyland Trails program in Atlanta, then more treatment at the Ridgeview Institute in Atlanta and now he is in Lifeskills in Florida. He has made big strides but it has taken 3 programs and Clozapine to get where he is today. He is doing really well but I worry about when he goes back to independent living. Lifeskills is doing a good job of teaching me to think about some of this in a different way. So, we will just have to see and hope and pray he will be able to maintain and thrive upon leaving Lifeskills and going back to independent living.
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I appreciate you put it like you did. Yes, 10 to 1 sounds like it might work with her. And one subject per note rather than a list.
To everyone else on this thread, right now I am humbled by the violence that you have faced and are facing in trying to care for your ill family member. It makes me thankful for the police who responded 40 or 50 times to my home in the first two years of my daughterās illness with quick, kind, effective responses. Many are CIT (Crisis Intervention Team) trained. I see now that those wonderful officers helped prevent a slide into violence for my family. I am also thankful that the one time she was arrested, the judge dropped the charges and recommended involuntary assessment (she was transported to a psych hospital from the jail). The police and the 4 Baker Acts have helped her to restrain herself. There has been no need for police for most of 2018. I see now I am very lucky that we live only 8 blocks from the police station.
I wish wholeheartedly those of you facing courts, violence, and potential end of mandated medication for your loved one have good results occur from the system.
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I can relate to this and hope our son can return to a residential treatment program. I am hopeful for your son! You surely have put so much into helping him. Thank you for sharing and giving hope for this approach, although understandably it is not a viable option for everyone.
This seems to me to be a very thoughtful letter. Iām not certain if AOTs are available in some states unless there is a co-occurring addiction. So the burden of treatment and housing still falls on the family in situations with no addiction, because the psych hospitals and the mental health courts often wonāt keep the person involuntarily. The latter has been my experience in two different states.
I hope things continue to improve with your son. This disease is nothing other than heartbreaking. I couldnāt get out of bed for 3 months from grief when he first went away. If my son had been put on Clozapine earlier, maybe we wouldnāt have had to do 3 programs. 650 mg of Seroquel was prescribed for him at Skyland Trail and while it didnāt do what we had wished, it did make him placid, docile and sedated so he was easier to be with. If Clozapine wasnāt working for him, Iād take the Seroquel as second choice. No weight gain. High dose made him sleepy and sedated but not all of the time and we could be with him without any hostility. I have found out from the Clozapine book I told you about (didnāt I?) that Nuvigil is a low risk stimulant that works well with Clozapine (my son is on it to keep him more alert during the day) and I imagine it would be the same with other very sedating meds. You just have to push and push for caregivers to keep trying and doing all that they can. Donāt settle for too low levels of Clozapine. It does cause a lot of weight gain and sedation but risk factors donāt increase until over 600 mg. Also, you just have to wait on the Clozapine to work and make him slowly get better. Itās hard to have the patience for it but for us it has been worth it. I do believe his drs. goal to get him to 500 from the get go was good bc I was able to make subsequent drs. stick to that instead of keeping him at too low of a dose. Since my son was more difficult to treat, I encourage you to hold on to your hope and prayer that things can get better with time. Please know that I know how you feel and how awful it is. I have been thinking of you a lot and really hope you continue to see gradual improvements and your hope grow with that.
Dear Hope4us,
Today I learned that my son doesnāt meet Lauraās Law AOT referral criteria because, although refusing meds heās still accepting ātreatmentā from the case managing team. Treatment equates to weekly therapy sessions with the case manager, not meds. Meds under Lauraās Law cannot be mandated; mandated meds are restricted to a very narrow margin of circumstances in our county, as is true for all of the USA.
Still, the talk I had with sonās case manager was hopeful. She essentially approved my stance to keep son at home, given his desire to remain here and his love for me and his home; and we agreed to keep a double eye out for symptoms of decompensation, with the view to enact AOT referral when/if they arise.
This thread has helped me immensely in getting through a difficult week. I see that all you who are sharing here have enormous challenges, enormous love too for your kids. Letās do all we can to promote their resurrection somehow.
Savanna
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Yes, thank you! I am looking at the āClozapineā Facebook page and book info now. So much to consider with the possible need for adjunct meds. Iām also intrigued to be thinking more about psycho-social treatments to add to medications that manage the symptoms. Will save this discussion for another post on Clozapine.
It is the illness that make him behave like this. Im not in us and cant understand how things work there. But the illness must leave him with his medication. My brother was shouting so much and was so aggressive he was also smoking marihuana sth that made him worse. Now he is in a good hospital under good medication and he understands his illness. For many years i was thinking that being at home and with the meds would make him better, but it was a complete loss. He needs hospitalization for 6 to 8 months. But in a good hospital. You will be safe and he also be healthier. This is my opinion according to my experience but once again i cant understand how usa is dealing with these cases.
Clozapine takes the aggresive manner of the patient and risperdal in high doses the voices that the patient could hear. By our experience. Very good combination. Depakine chrono stabilizes the mood of the patient.
Thank you. I will keep this info for reference!