So, we are in a bad way at the moment. Kobe (20 years old now) started attacking my wife and I (punching, kneeing, choking, and kicking) about 3 weeks ago and has been locked up twice on a Chapter 51 here in Milw, WI. He has been taking antipsychotics for almost 2 years and this never happened to the extent it has recently. He has been guinea pigged by his psychiatrist with med changes for over all of these years with no answers and is always having episodes every day all day to some extent. Usually mild but still happening. He was on Clozaril, Invega, and Lithium and then then wanted to replace the Invega with another antipsychotic - so they gave him Caplyta and reduced the Invega. Shortly after this change he attacked my wife and I out of nowhere. He was locked up, came home 7 days later and went about a week taking Caplyta, Clozaril, Invega, and Lithium and then attacked me hard and ran out of the house screaming. He is locked up now and gets out again tomorrow. Anyone have something like this happen after being treated sort of OK for almost 2 years? - the doc he has is about to get either my wife and I killed or him running in the streets here in Milw…Please send ideas, thoughts…
Okay, yeah, that is way in a bad way. My only thought is to offer you to seek the help of the psychiatrist that my Family to Family class said specialized in severe mental illnesses. I will private message you his name and phone number. You are in Milwaukee and he is in Houston, maybe he would do a consultation on a telemed and work with your current psychiatrist.
I don’t need to warn you that you and your wife are in danger, it’s clear you are fully aware.
Yes, this happened to me and my wife. 4 hospitalizations in 3 years despite being on meds the entire time. When he went off of them, or they were tapered too fast the trouble started. He was older, though, about 31 at the first hospitalization.
When he was put on a very high dose of meds ( 20 mg of olanzapine and 600 mg of quetiapine) and he decided he’d had enough of the psychoses and was going to be compliant did he start to get better. The meds have been very slowly tapered down during the following 2 years.
I think the med changes are not unusual, as getting the meds right is not a science. That being said, you might check to see if there is a university or medical center clinic near where you live who could offer their advice. The psychoses are horrible for the family as well as the patient, but he stands a good chance of getting better if you just keep toughing it out.
I know its hard to remember but you are probably right that the sycosis and bad episodes are caused by the meds, I’ve seen my daughter go from angel to demon depending on the meds the doctor was giving her. Can’t they hospitalize him till he levels out and is no longer hopefully a threat to you guys. If this continues on this way I hate to think the outcome either one of you being severely harmed or someone you don’t know. He could wind up in prison so maybe think of having him committed, I hate committals you and he no longer will have any say in his welfare from then on.
Everytime my son is off of his medication, he gets violent. Right now he
is going to have to go to jail, as he keeps attacking me, and I had to file a
report. People said maybe he will get help in the “system”, and I’m still
trying to get approval from Health and welfare, and to see about some
assisted living, as if he keeps this up I cannot live with it anymore. It is
constant verbal and physical attacks, like devils.
The first psych said to take clozapine, but he never got on it, was too
paranoid to get treatment. I read on this site a lot of people had good
luck with that one. He was calm when on olanzapine, oxcarbazene and
trintillex together. Now new place changed him and the med’s are off.
The family suffers and the kid, because now theyre having to go back to hospital or jail, which is boring as hell and mentally sad.
My partner gets agitated in psychosis. It seems like they become so freaked out from their paranoia and wrapped up in that world, that they have extreme behavior because they believe they arent safe and others are out to get them, but that can make them start acting like the instigator because the delusions arent shared reality and not happening. He has said things to me, and gives me intense looks, but never been physical during these periods. He was on palperidone first but started cutting those in half on his own and got psychotic. Went back on normal dose and didnt stabilize, then psychiatrist put him on seroquel at the same time, and in the week period of starting that started talking about guns like crazy and killing himself. It got really dark. So reducing meds can trigger episodes and even not reducing anything, but switching meds can have serious effects on stability sometimes. He later switched to olanzapine and that helped from where he was at with no serious complications, but hes had some issues being back to where he was before cutting his palperidone.
Outside of the safety concerns (which are most important at the moment), I highly recommend taking a closer look at best practices for administering Clozapine (Clozaril). Many doctors are not well-versed in this medication, although some consider it to be the “gold standard” for schizophrenia for a significant percent of persons with this diagnosis. Doctors Robert and Ann Laitman are highly sought-after for their knowledge and ability to manage Clozaril use with their patients. They have written this book which I highly recommend. https://www.amazon.com/MEANINGFUL-RECOVERY-Schizophrenia-Serious-Clozapine/dp/172748424X. Also, refer to the private Facebook group mentioned in their book. For example, I have learned that combining anti-psychotics is normally NOT a best practice and can cause problems. And so much more…
Hi ALL, Thanks for the thoughts, ideas, and help. Kobe is gone again and he became Satan again a few hours ago out of nowhere. So this is his 3rd Chapter in a month here in Milw, WI and was even on some Lorazapam and still decided to pronounce that he was Jesus Christ (at first) and then started to get physical. He ran up to our bedroom and threatened to rape my wife and slapped her hands away from her phone. He found my daughter in our upstairs bathroom and threatened her…I had handcuffs when I got up there and got them on him and he tried to jump out of an upstairs window. He ran downstairs while slamming the shit out of me with his handcuffs, I grabbed a super long zip tie and got it around his ankle as he was running out the door. I swept his legs and kept him from probably getting killed in streets. The police got to our house 35 minutes later. here. We are done!
I am so sorry, you are making a good decision.
I am sorry your son has not stabilized. There’s no real best wishes here, except that MAYBE MAYBE he might qualify for an involuntary comittment with court orders to continue with some sort of care and follow up from a diagnostic team with specialization in Tx and ruling out any other underlying health conditions. I am so sorry your daughter and wife (and you who had to use physical restraints on your own son.)
No one WANTS to have to do it, and yet the alternative when their paranoia is that bad is to let them get hurt. Very few people have spent any amount of time with people who are that agitated and those who insist you can “talk” people out of such states don’t seem to realize the reality the patient is facing makes them so scared, there is no such thing as “talking them out of it.”
An aside that I think is worth mentioning, SZ commonly messes with people’s release of cortisol and hormones that regulate sleep and wakefulness. The paranoid thoughts can often keep SZ patients from getting meaningful sleep which then drives their psychosis and physiological health into the gutter because they are never truly rested. To that end, most ER and short term Psyche consults provide sleep aides because they are trying to lessen the degree of someone’s paranoia. Unfortunately, usually to the patients benefaction IF and only IF they somehow come to the conclusion that sleep will help and the medicines are not “poison”. (A common delusion which is fed by paranoia.)
It is rough but hopefully the police report and your family members stepping in will help get him the assistance he needs.
Thanks for the insight ALL! It really does help. Unfortunately, there is more bad news for Kobe. He was in his room at the county lock-up and told someone he was feeling a slight episode coming. They tried to give him a chill pill and he went back into his room for a bit - the pill did nothing and he went into the common area and started rubbing up on other patents and getting in their face. He then attacked the staff and they had to get him down, into straps, and into a bed with restraints. Maybe they will consider some med changes now? This is all I can think of…but if someone is truly med-resistant on every level…would it matter? Has anyone heard of this?
Sorry, I don’t have Dr E Fuller Torrey’s book "Surviving Schizophrenia A Family Manual with me. He would be the source you would want to consult regarding treatment resistant schizophrenia.
I do know from court records that a young man in Texas who killed his parents has remained in a forensic prison as they have been unable to treat his schizophrenia. He isn’t competent to be tried in his current condition. He hasn’t been found guilty of the murder of his parents.
There are a percentage of people who are treatment resistant. According to a paper published in 2016 they believe that up to 30% of people with schizophrenia do not respond to two or more trials of dopaminergic antipsychotics. People on this forum in the past have advocated for genetic testing that helps determine what meds may be more likely to work on an individual.
There have been medical papers published regarding “TRS” treatment resistant schizophrenia - chasing research is where we family members end up learning a lot of new words.
Sorry for your nightmare! Its good to hear that he is away from the family and somewhere he can be looked after and that they are seeing some of what you guys are going through. I’m glad you are hopefully getting a little peace right now and that they keep him or put him in some care facility so if meds can help he can get the help he needs. I’m sure you are all still in shock from what just happened and I hope all of you can get some help dealing with all of this. You did what was right for the moment to keep all of you safe including him good job. Sorry for your pain.
Thanks again to all of you! So I did reach out to the reference I was given about Dr. Torreys position in the Clozaril game and I did hear back from a support group affiliated with him. They said unfortunately Kobe is most likely untreatable and in the percentage that Clozaril cannot help. He attacked the hospital staff again where he is Chaptered by putting his head thru a plexi glass slot and getting into the nurses station and throwing computers while attacking people. IS anyone else out there having these kinds of problems - with meds not woking and episodes getting worse - Starting to think he is actually possessed by Satan - who knows of an exorsist?
Get a different psychiatrist. When I was looking for a psychologist for my son I interviewed five doctors, all supposedly knowledgeable about schizophrenia. I knew more than they did and had to come up with ideas - they didn’t have any. It’s tough to find someone who knows what they’re doing. Try calling your local NAMI office and ask for a referral.
Thanks, it was the first one my son’s doctor recommended, and
we have never got, as his father played into paranoia and made
him afraid of the doctor ( a narcissistic guy who fools all).
I feel the same, like it’s satanic with my son.
He started vaping Delta -9 and they put something in it.
His olanzapine, trintillex, and oxcarbazene although not a cure, did
keep him calm.
But when he went off, thinking he was ok back to violent, and tried to
escape hospital while waiting for a bed, and threw bottle at a nurse trying
to run out, and then got put in jail. They said theyd get him meds, did not,
finally got out and a probation, and now new doctors, did not read his
diagnosis, or get same meds, and only prozac, he got violent and weird
again and is now in jail, for threatening me with money, and scaring me to
get money, to gamble and the police did nnothing with all his threats to kill
me. No gun in our home, and hide the knives.
Definitely does seem like a satanic demonic possesion, and deliverance
But meds do something.
I am so sorry that you are going through this with your son. Have you and your wife pressed charges so that he will get and stay in the court system/jail system?
I don’t think you should allow him in your home, as harsh as that is for me to say. I had to get my daughter arrested a few times, and it was ONLY a judge who listened to me about her refusal to stay on her meds that resulted in the final hospitalization and med change (that worked).
Use the court system! It seems that your son belongs in jail, and jails CAN get a result or minimally protect the family and the public.
Eventually, my daughter had a good med change and a recovery out of her psychosis but ONLY with threat of staying in jail longer if she didn’t agree to be monitored by the courts on her meds.
Your first priority is the safety of your wife, yourself and your daughter.
Slapping a phone out of your wife’s hands, hitting, kicking, threatening, etc. are crimes. I’m sorry, but you MUST keep yourself safe first. It is NOT YOUR FAULT that your son can’t control himself or his demons. If your son is lost to his psychosis, you must remember that you did everything you could to prevent that, and forgive yourself.