Family and Caregiver Schizophrenia Discussion Forum

Violent brother with Schizo-Affective will be out of hospital soon and coming to live with us

Not exactly live, more like squat in a small shed in the backyard with no access to a shower, toilet, running water, fridge, or any means to make food or store it. He is under no circumstance allowed in the house with my mom and me - has not been inside for well over a decade. He has been kicked out of every place he has rented for being loud, destroying property, and allowing bums and low lifes to live in his place, or he had to leave because said bums and low lifes took over the place and became violent with him ( Guns have been involved in some of these incidents ) He is almost 30 years old. I don’t want him here ( My mom doesn’t want him here either but she doesn’t want him homeless ) but it’s not up to me and I have medical issues that prevent me from moving out on my own. I am at my wit’s end. He needs to go if you have any ideas if there is somewhere that he can be placed please respond. We are in Kansas.

  • He is violent ( He has attacked my mom more times than I can count, he’s attacked strangers and strangled me several times, plus he gets involved with violent people. He has also attacked my mom in the car several times, one time causing her to wreck )
  • He is loud ( He screams all night long, wakes my mom all night long for money, she is his payee or cigs or for my mom to make him food or just to scream )
  • He is bad with money ( Spends it all on drugs and he had his bank account closed down for losing his card too many times and being inappropriate/violent with the cashier - thus the reason my mom is his payee )
  • He has poor hygiene ( Needs to be told to shower )
  • He cannot clean up his own place ( It needs to be in a relatively safe area because my mom will go over and clean it for him )
  • He is sexually aggressive to strangers as well as his own family
  • He leaves his door unlocked
  • He lets any random strangers in his house ( Mom went over to his place before he got kicked out and there were like 5 guys sleeping in there with needles on the floor, and he can’t or won’t make them leave )
  • He steals
  • He lies
  • He loses everything ( Keys, ID, important documents, money ect. )
  • No one will take guardianship of him
  • He is on SSI
  • He is on food stamps ( But it doesn’t matter because he loses/sells his card every chance he gets )
  • He is almost 30
  • He has been in and out of state hospitals
  • He has been to jail several times ( The regular and the one for mentally ill people )

I apologize for being blunt but I want whoever may give me advice to have the full picture. If there is somewhere permanent/long-term to put a mentally ill person who is excessively violent please tell me, I am desperate.

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Wow! What a terrible terrible situation for you and your mother! I assume he doesn’t stay on medication? I really wish I could tell you something helpful, but it’s not an experience I’ve been through, the violence and the drugs. My son has schizophrenia and it’s not good, what I mean is it’s just not what any of us want for our loved one. He gets a monthly injection of invega sustenna and three other meds in pill form, and he still sometimes has an episode and hospital time. It’s sad. But your situation is so dangerous!

I’m so sorry. I wish I could help. I just want to at least let you know that. Please stay safe, you and your mom. Maybe if he could be persuaded to stay on meds, that sounds so lame, I know. Whew! And I hate to say just call 911 because when the law gets involved many times it goes badly, although sometimes it’s the only way.

Hopefully, someone here in this forum will have some useful information for you.

I am so sorry. I really am. I don’t know where you live or what is available in your area. Ideally an assisted living facility would be best and it is apparent from the behaviors you’ve described that he is not getting the proper treatment either because he is non compliant or perhaps because of street drugs (as you mentioned people with needles) -I would say he needs a court appointed guardian asap. If he is declared legally incompetent then it is up to the state to find a place for him and take care of his welfare.

They will control his finances and can get court orders for treatment for his illness and if he has any dual diagnosis with drugs. It is a difficult road for him and for you and your family but as you listed above, things are not going well now.

I would file papers with the court to have him declared incompetent. I would make sure the court gets the above list and any police reports or other complaints you can share. It sounds bad but they will approach him unemotionally and yet practically. He has to do A, B and C…no negotiations.

I am not saying it always works but I don’t see another path unless someone in your family wants to be named guardian and rep payee.

I was both for my son and it eventually worked for him. It was incredibly hard to do. I often thought I wouldn’t succeed. My son wasn’t particularly violent but he was very unpredictable and hung out with criminal types and was destructive to property and to himself and did drugs as well. I ended up monitoring him 24/7 and I can’t even recount how we got from all that to the much better and saner and more normal son I have today, it all seems like a blur when I think back.

Today he is 36, drug free, compliant on his meds and sane. He still needs to live with me, needs my direction, is unable to work and I still handle the majority of his finances.

BUT we can talk and laugh and spend quality time together and I trust him not to be unpredictable. It is a great relief. We make good room mates.

Your family has to decide what will best save his life. He can’t do it himself. My best hopes for you and your family. Please take care.

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You do not need to apologize for being blunt. I’m sure many people on this Forum will relate. Sadly, this is a perfect picture of what SZ looks like for many persons when they are not in treatment. It seems to me that some of what you describe qualifies as “danger to self” or “danger to others”. In that case, the person SHOULD qualify for longer term involuntary treatment. Have you or someone documented his complete history so that the hospital is fully aware of this terrible cycle? Why don’t the hospitals keep him? If he is violent, why are you letting him come home? What will the hospital do if you say that he cannot come home based on his history and (I presume) his non-medication compliance?

If nothing else, you need a place where you can get support for yourself and potentially for your mom and any other family members. The largest grass roots organization in the U.S. for this is National Alliance on Mental Illness. NAMI.org (look up the one in your state).

My son is at where your son was. He takes his monthly shot, but he does drugs. I am his payee and I’ve set him up in a studio apartment, but I don’t know how long it will last. The neighbors in the building complain about the noise he and his so called “friends”, (crack addicts) make. So I’m pretty sure his lease won’t be renewed in 7 months. My son has gotten a little violent with me and my husband in the past when we wouldn’t give him money. He has sold everything we have bought for him, including phones, two tv, and much much more, for drugs. My husband took him away for the month of march to keep him off the drugs and help him get clean, but he was back at them a week after coming back. I just pray he stops doing the drugs and wants a future.

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The only thing you can do is keep calling the police on him. The violence is just to scary. I’m so sad for you and your mom. I’m in a little bit of the same situation with my son, without the violence though.

@dequilamarguerite1 He won’t take his medication and often he refuses to go to his appointment for his monthly injections. The law got involved, that’s actually why he was in the hospital, previously he was in jail, you know the one for mentally ill people? He was sent there for attacking a cop in a court room and the reason he was in court was because off drug charges. We have called the cops on him so many times I’ve lost track, they seem to be at our house at least 20 times a year. It doesn’t do any good because despite social workers seeing his living situation and cops knowing his history with violence and drugs no one has done anything. All it does is take time out of my mom’s job to go to court to prosecute him so she’s stopped calling, It’s just pointless and a waste of time.

Thank you for taking your time to respond and I’m sorry about your situation as well.

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@Catherine We live in Kansas USA. We’ve looked into assisted living but I don’t think they take anyone as violent as my brother is. At one point his case worker was looking into putting him into a old folks home but he couldn’t get in and no one really thought it was a good idea anyway, lol. He is absolutely on drugs, meth and mary jane. We know because my mom has found them in his place ( When he had one ) before.

How do we get him declared legally incompetent? What is the process and do you know how it would be different for where I live?

It’s already been a difficult road for us, it was worse when he was living in the house with us.

I need police reports, lists of what he’s done - what about statements from friends, family and neighbors? I want to know everything I need and need to do so he can finally be put somewhere permanently and receive the care he needs.

I’m glad that taking guardianship of your son worked out for you but I don’t think that’s a option for us. He is 6+ tall and ridiculously strong, on more than one occasion he has actually picked my mom up and thrown her.

Thank you for responding! It’s giving me some things to look into and any other info you have would be greatly appreciated.

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@hope4us Thank you. I’m sorry to say but he doesn’t get much better even when he is on treatment and doing everything he should be doing and with no access to drugs. He’s been in jail for mentally ill people for the last year where he is made to take his medicine and participate in whatever therapy they deem he needs and two months before they moved him to a hospital he punched a nurse in the face. A female one at that.

Have you or someone documented his complete history so that the hospital is fully aware of this terrible cycle? My mom explains to whichever nurse/doctor/therapist/cop she comes into contact with that this has been going on for a long time, that he is violent, won’t take his medicine and has been arrested more times than she can count. Unless you mean something else? Like should I make a folder and keep track of this stuff? Please tell me all the information you have and how to get him longer-term involuntary treatment.

Why don’t the hospitals keep him? Honestly I don’t know. I don’t know if this is true but I’ve heard that the hospital he is in currently has a longer-term program there for especially incompetent patients - and he’s been there before so that must mean they find him competent…? Lol. I’ve talked to family and friends about this and when I explain the full details the majority of people think they just don’t want to put up with him - a case of too much trouble than it’s worth. It sounds ridiculous but no one can come up with a better explanation.

If he is violent, why are you letting him come home? This is my mom’s property so it’s not up to me. If it were me well… Her reason is pretty simple, it’s her son and she doesn’t want him to end of homeless, hurt, or worse. I’m just thankful she doesn’t let him live in the house with us, small blessings eh?

What will the hospital do if you say that he cannot come home based on his history and (I presume) his non-medication compliance? That is what we are trying now - it is actually the first time we tried doing this. We’re not getting our hopes up though because nothing we’ve ever done has gotten anyone to help us.

Are you suggesting NAMI.org for mine and my mom’s mental wellbeing or is this something to help my brother? Because we’ve both been getting help for the mental distress he’s put on us. Apparently I’ve got PTSD from it? Lol. I’m not getting the best help tho so I’ll look into it. Thank you for the link and for responding!

@Robin We’ve been doing that for the last 15 years and it’s gotten us nowhere. All it’s done is take my mom away from her work, missed hours - missed income. If it keeps up they may fire her so we’ve stopped doing it.

I am sorry about your situation and I hope the best for you and your son.

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@Robin I’m sorry that’s happened to you and your family. Plan ahead for when he eventually does get kicked out because it can happen fast if he gets violent with his land lord or other occupants - put some money away for a new apartment when the time comes. Or - Since he’s not as violent as my brother have you considered putting him up in your back yard? I don’t know your living situation but if you own a house you could convert a garage into a small home for him to live in. You could also look into small houses? If you go that route I would advise in investing in some security cameras around your house. Wish you all the best!

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Omg!
This is horrible!
May i ask you which medicine does he take?
And is he medicine compliant

@Toota Right now I believe he’s on thorazine and getting invega sustenna injections. He is probably on other medications but I don’t have that information. When you say medicine compliant do you mean does he take it? Because the answer is no, he won’t take his pills and he often misses appointments for injections and even when he is on them he is still very violent. They have tried several different medicines on him over the years and none of them has really helped or reduced the amount of violence he inflicts on others.

Omg! Therozine is horrible,it can turn some people to killers!
I advise you to ask the hospital to give him clozapine please ask them it’ll turn him to another person
Has he tried it before?
It’s a great one

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You have to call your local county probate court and file papers with them. There will be a hearing and they will allow him representation. (This is how it went when I did it with my son) I am assuming it’s similar in Kansas, I would ask about the process. When the hearing happens you can bring witnesses to speak supporting the reasons you are declaring him incompetent. The drugs are huge, the poor money management, doctors visits, or lack thereof, all police reports, lack of self support at every turn. All the violent episodes. lack of mental health and physical health care. I would really underline the huge need for court ordered DUAL DIAGNOSIS assessment and treatment, as well as a court appointed guardian who also serves as a rep payee. This will clip his wings and hopefully get him under control, he will be madder than a wet hen, but I think it is the kindest and most constructive thing you can do. Let me know what happens. I’m a good listener if you need to vent. ~Catherine PS: I am guessing that no one in your home can handle this huge responsibility and understandable so. You will have to make it clear that you are doing this because you want to save his life but that as a family you are looking to the courts to help because you simply are unable to do it yourselves. If luck has it’s way (as it did with my son) he will show his true colors at the hearing and the court will do exactly what is necessary. Good luck.

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I am sorry your son is still doing drugs. If I had not moved my son in with me and basically forced him to live by my rules, he would still be doing all of the same things that your son is doing.

I attempted allowing my son to live elsewhere a couple of times before I decided “never again” and it always went downhill very quickly.

Now that we are permanent room mates and the living together rules are so well ingrained in him since at least 2011. Things are peaceful and cooperative consistently. I believe this is the only way he can maintain.

Many schizophrenics need constant daily reassurances and redirection away from “thoughts” and anxieties that lead them to unacceptable behaviors if left on their own.

Many parents perish the thought of their adult child living with them indefinitely, and I certainly understand that with all of my heart. Still, for me, my lifestyle is one that allows for this to work for me and for my son. I came to grips over time that it was the healthiest way of life for each of us.

I would be extremely unhappy if I was told I had to accept my son would continue to do drugs and associate with the n’er do wells he use to call his friends until his demise. I feel your pain. I hope you and your husband can find a way to lead your son to recovery and more stability in his life. Thanks so much for sharing.

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@Toota He has been on clozapine, it didn’t do anything and it didn’t reduce his violent tendencies. He’s been almost on basically all anti-psychotics at some point.

@Catherine Thank you, I will write this down and pass this information onto my mom. I take it that this is the process for the state to take guardianship of him? You are right, no one can handle him, he’s too violent.

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@Catherine He’s not my son, he’s my brother, lol. And there is no husband or man in the household to protect my mother or me from him.

I wish he would cooperate and play by the rules but he won’t. He was diagnosed with schizophrenia pretty young when we were both kids. He became violent then and has not stopped being violent, he’s strangled me, broken my mom’s arm etc. And he will not listen to anyone or follow rules, no matter if he had his car/items taken away or if the cops were called. He just won’t stop.

I’m not a parent, I’m just a sibling of a schizophrenic man so I don’t get this unconditional love that parents have. I’m mainly concerned for my mother and her well being. She has been his main caregiver his whole life and she is getting too old to take care of him and it’s becoming too dangerous. She cares about him so I am forced to care as well basically.

Thank you and I’m sorry about your situation, I’m glad to hear that you have gained some stability. Wish your family the best.

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:frowning:
Omg!this guy is completely messed up then!
I don’t know what to say
May God help all of you…