Can people with SZ really love?

There has been a lot of media coverage of SMI lately, and also scientific articles about the effects of too much or too little dopamine. Although science tells us that emotions are essentially driven by complex brain-gut chemistry, many people have a hard time believing it. But we know that some antidepressants dull emotions and that many schizophrenics appear to not feel positive emotions or not as intensely as people without the disorder. Instead, schizophrenia is usually characterized by excessively negative emotions, especially irrational fear and the other negative emotions that delusions trigger: suspicion, paranoia, anger. The result is that many people, sadly even some whose symptoms are at least partially controlled by meds, withdraw from loved ones and society in order to protect themselves. Or they lash out at those closest because they - often the only people available - have become the target of delusional fear.

Love is a basic, essential emotion for humans and arguably other higher order sentient creatures. Many people come to understand that love is their prime motivator and the most important ingredient to a happy, fulfilled life. And yet we know that some of our loved ones with SZ seem to be unable to accept and benefit from love, and the inability to communicate emotions, especially demonstrating love or affection, is a common negative symptom. It’s possibly the most dehumanizing of all the aspects of this cruel disorder.

Most people dealing with family members are not overly concerned about whether their parent, child or sibling loves them. They worry more about how to best help the family member for whom they are responsible.

But people who come to this platform seeking advice on partners and romantic interests who suffer from SZ have a different perspective. Above all, they are usually trying to find out one thing: does my sick partner, who at one time seemed “normal,” still love me? Did they ever really love me like I love them? What have I done to trigger this withdrawal or rejection, and what must I do to regain it? It’s understandable and heartbreaking because very often the answer is: no one knows. Or: you will have to be patient and possibly endure months or years before the right combination of meds and therapy reveal the best your partner is likely ever to be, and they will never again be the same person you once loved; it’s up to you if you are willing to love and support this new person. That’s pretty discouraging for people who ultimately want reassurance that at least here will be love again.

I’ve read scientific or scholarly articles on the subject and it appears difficult to find an answer to this fundamental question.

Some articles maintain that the flat affect and apparent indifference of some people with SZ hide the same emotions underneath that “normal” people feel, including love. This is the school of thought that “inside, they’re still the same but they’re unable to show it.”

Some theorize that the brain and gut biochemistry of SZ means that their emotions are just different. Still others put forth the idea that the overriding fear felt by of the un- or sub-medicated focuses attention to satisfying basic needs, like food, shelter, drugs or alcohol, etc., and there’s no actual desire or need to connect beyond that.

I see these questions and themes over and over again on the forum and would welcome your thoughts.

7 Likes

Well, on the other forum there are some people with schizophrenia who say they’re in love with their spouse or that they love their children and family. There’s quite a few and they can’t all be lying. Can they? I’ve been diagnosed for 47 years and never felt strong love for anyone other then my family. I wonder how close we really are though. I care what happens to them and would help them in any way I could. My diseased mother is the only person who ever said they loved me.

I guess I missed out on love but it doesn’t bother me, I don’t dwell on it and it’s no big deal. I put all my energy into working for 42 years and getting my college degree three years ago. I can see certain women I’m attracted to and have feelings for them but it’s more like infatuation and I couldn’t sustain those feelings for any significant amount of time.

But yeah, on the other forum there’s husbands or wives with schizophrenia who say they have been in love for years and they sound like they love their children. I sometimes cringe in embarrassment for them at how bad some of their “normie” spouses can treat them but no relationship is perfect.

4 Likes

I feel this defies knowing whether a partner has a diagnosis or not. Reminds me of a test question in Philosophy I had in college. It asked if robots could ever feel emotions. I responded they might have “robot emotions” related to their experience and wiring, but comparing them to human emotions seemed fraught.

Love’s tricky for me, and it’s hard to tell if it’s related to the ADHD or SZA diagnosis. When I was younger, I had a tendency toward limerence. And I daresay a fair share of people exhibiting erotomania symptoms lie on the Schizophrenia spectrum. I feel it’s less a question of whether people with schizophrenia can feel love, but whether it’s sustainable or stable. For me at least, it seems the more intense the feelings, the less stable the relationship. Emotional disregulation I feel is at the core of this, and since ADHD and SZ are both related to dopamine regulation it’s hard to say which disorder’s at fault.

3 Likes

Years and years ago, another member from the other forum checked in with this forum and offered some excellent perspectives. One of the perspectives resonated with me. He said how discouraging it was to live every day with someone else being disappointed by you. Our expectations fuel our disappointment and we show that disappointment in subtle ways (for some) and not so subtle ways (for some).

I do think that unconditional love plays a big part in the motivation for dedicated parents, children and siblings. Loving someone unconditionally does require meeting someone “where they are at”. I took the lesson to heart and made sure to not be raining my disappointment down upon Mike. The difference in our relationship from that point benefitted both of us. As always, LEAP communication is excellent because it shows respect and lets a person be heard. Add in let a person just grow without constantly working them as a project is important. Progress and changes can take years and had to be progress and change that Mike wanted. LEAP helped me understand his goals and unconditional love provided the patience.

In my humble opinion, everyone doesn’t experience unconditional love from their parents, children and siblings.

Personally, I don’t think that unconditional love should be a major player in partner type relationships. Spouses, boyfriend/girlfriends, partners, these are relationships that require cooperation and effort from both parties to be successful. So much pressure!

6 Likes

To follow up on this, since I think it’s relevant…

I forget if this was my epistemology or ethics class (same professor), but I added that while emotional states of others aren’t absolutely knowable, treating them differently because they lack ability to reciprocate love to your satisfaction or discounting how they report their emotional state is similarly ethically fraught and there are no right answers. But I feel if people report they feel or felt love or other emotions, you should give them a benefit of doubt.

Consider if a spouse who suffered a stroke or developed dementia and are unable to reciprocate love– that’s a similar ethical dilemma. The stroke sufferer might recover, while the dementia patient might not. Should you treat each situation differently? How long might you wait for recovery? Similarly for partners with terminal illnesses. I’ve seen people navigate these tough situations in a myriad of ways. One took another partner, and they both cared for his brain injured wife. Not unlike how @GSSP and his partner cared for his wife. I helped a coworker move out of a house where his former partner was on hospice and move in with a new partner. (I wasn’t aware this was the case, until after I started moving things). Everyone has their own ways of dealing with these dilemmas, and I don’t feel equipped to judge. The best I can do is try to support people with tough decisions.

4 Likes

I tend to agree with the comment that it’s a question of sustainability. As I’ve observed my brother over the years, intense emotions are what overwhelm him. Why would anyone seek to dwell in and express, then, the deep highs and lows of love as defined by our romanticized culture? Better to avoid and focus elsewhere, to stay calm. (I hope I understood that comment correctly.)

It’s hard to imagine what it would be like having a partner with a serious mental illness. While you may love them, even unconditionally, it would probably in my estimation feel like a one-way street most of the time, with a rare payoff when something demonstrably lovable finally comes your way.

As to “can they love”–if a person was shown what love is before they became ill, either from personal encounters, books, religion, whatever, that likely is still in there. The day my mother died and I told my brother, he had the most spontaneous response of crying for a good two minutes, unabashedly. Grief and love. I think it’s there, but all cases are different, aren’t they?

Good question. Thanks for posting it.

4 Likes