Family and Caregiver Schizophrenia Discussion Forum

LEAP help here please? Quickly mid conversation

I was doing LEAP and he asked me if I was admitting to general abusive vindictive behavior towards him?

I was repeating the stuff back and he came back with this, so far I have asked if we can agree to disagree?

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He now says my responses are weird - yes he is too smart for the leap stuff.

Anyone have a suggestion? he wants me to admit to abusing/stalking/harassing

I do a modified LEAP because my son caught on really quickly.

Instead of repeating, I ask open questions & skip quickly to empathy.
I haven’t gotten to the agreement part.

I say this kind of thing a lot:

I don’t understand how that works. Can you explain it to me? (then I keep asking questions so he knows I’m listening & interested, but I don’t repeat - it bugs the crap out of him.)

Also -
That would scare me - does it scare you?
I wish there was something I can do to help - what can I change?
I wouldn’t like that at all.

My son’s talking about knowing celebrities & having ESP, so it’s very different from your situation.


Thank you for the suggestions, I did try our open question suggestion, at least it was something. Agree to disagree about whether or not I was abusing him had him really confused. I pretty much locked up and couldn’t think of anything. I did not want text him that I was abusing him to affirm that I was listening to him.


I lock up all the time with LEAP.

I think it took me at least a month of reading to even try it.

I like to think I’m a pretty good study, but LEAP goes against my nature & it’s really hard for me.

Maybe, tell him you know he’s suffering, but you are not purposely trying to hurt him in any way. And, that you’ll do your best to stay out of his way - or whatever else he needs to think you’re not trying to hurt him.

You’ve got a tough situation - I have no idea how I would respond to it.

Sometimes, I tell my son that I don’t always know when I’m doing something that bothers him, so he’ll have to tell me the specific thing he wants me to do or not do. Then, if I can change, I will.


I think he finally fell asleep. My son is so caught up in this abuse/stalking delusion these days. His community coordinator called for his yearly assessment today. She did provide a nurse 800 number that he can call when he is stressed. That might be helpful, I wonder what they would say to him? He’s not going to like it if they suggest he is mentally ill.

The coordinator also gave me the 800 number to report abuse, she does not want me to give it to him. She said they would not just talk to him, they would only focus on starting up an investigation. She said its for actual abuse, not delusions.


Maybe you should call the 800 number for the nurse & ask them how they handle this kind of thing?

I’d hope they’re familiar with lack of insight, unmedicated people with MI, etc. and know how to handle it without making the situation worse.


I believe the LEAP strategies make sense for clinicians who are trying to gain trusting and respectful relationships with their patients. I don’t believe all of LEAP is meant for caregivers, those of whom have already previously established these connections as parents or long-term loved ones.

I was told by our Open Dialogue clinicians to simply state “I am not doing X, Y, Z and I never ever would”. Leave it at that.

In my experience, saying the words “I love you and I always will”, even during the bad moments, helps to reassure and calm my child


I agree with that type of statement.


I would be much more comfortable saying “I have never done that and I never will”. I think otherwise its just confusing to him.

Makes sense that LEAP works best for clinicians, short term support, no relationship established. Would also have worked for the long distance relatives he contacted this past weekend.

Telling him I love him just upsets him. He is usually okay with me telling him I am here to protect him and keep him safe. I used to tell him that all the time before trying the LEAP stuff. Hearing and saying “I love you” was a regular part of his life from childhood, but isn’t comforting to him at this point.

I feel better just thinking about branching off of LEAP, it has served a purpose in that it re-established communication and the listening and empathizing part is still crucial for my son. I need to have a different game plan ready.


I’m on hold right now to find out.

This is what they said…

They will talk to him for assessment and triage purposes if he calls them when he is in crisis. They do answer the phone using the phrase behavioral health - if he can get past that, they will talk to him.

The line is manned by nurses with mental health training. The nurse said its a possibility that if someone thinks he is in danger, they could possibly call the police. They might also encourage him to go to a hospital.

The nurse had some suggestions for other resources. The community plan (state Medicaid) has a website showing resources available to him to help him deal with stress. She also suggest a depression and bipolar online support group that I could offer. Since it doesn’t mention scz, he might go for it. She said they send a lot of people suffering from anxiety to that site.


They also gave me a suggestion for “warm lines” phone lines staffed by peers who are in recovery. My state listing has just one. Its hours are 2pm - 6pm M-F. Maybe our next crisis will be in that time frame.

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My son is fixating on a very silly thing right now - a couple of years ago, when his meds were also not established, he wanted to drink a lot of Red Bull. When he did, I would see a very quick negative impact on his psychosis and behaviors. He would get extremely agitated, psychotic, and aggressive. I refused to get him Red Bull, and didn’t help him go and purchase it himself, and after huge resistance, he gave it up.

Now he is dwelling on the fact that I made him stop drinking Red Bull, insisting it was ‘medically necessary’ for him, and that my interference resulted in most of his problems. Good grief, right? He’s expressing negative thoughts about taking his meds as well, tho as far as I can tell, he is taking it.

Sometimes I just want to shake him, and tell him to wake up - of COURSE his diagnosis is correct, he has the classic symptoms of delusions and paranoia. No insight is THE WORST. He will continue to come up with any other possible explanation for his unhappiness rather than accept the diagnosis and move forward with his life. I don’t think LEAP can help me with any of this.

Sigh. Sorry, I’m just griping.


What is it with Red Bull? I think it’s nasty - my son loves it.

They make this thing called a Turbo Coke - he loves those too.
It’s a coke with a double shot of espresso in it.

At least I have successfully switched out the coffee at home for decaf & I rarely buy sodas.
At home, the most caffeine he gets is from iced tea & he rarely goes out.

My son is in the hospital right now & some of his senses have came back, but he’s asking me why I kicked him out?
I tell him I didn’t kick him out - he was scared he was dead & asked to go to the hospital. He’s sure that never happened.


We have to deal with so much - we MUST be very strong people!


When I get irritated with any of my husband’s friends, family, whatever - that’s what I tell him.
They’re like that because they’re weak & whiney - no one’s as strong as we are.

Seriously though, we need a new saying. Like some people call minor problems “first-world problems”.


Mine actually does his best on large doses of caffeine, it has a calming effect on him. He stopped drinking it as he was concerned it was bad for him. He’s gone on and off it before. Currently he is off caffeine:(


My son still drinks caffieinated things - its just whatever is in that Red Bull!


I like the idea of our needing a saying…thinking thinking thinking

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Yesterday I did tell my son that I had been using a special communication method with him that was supposed to reassure people when they were upset by agreeing with them. I told him I never had and never would abuse him or stalk him. I would protect him and keep him safe.

He did come out and confront me when I was running the lawnmower today. He feels I am doing it on purpose to upset him.

I keep pressing for him to work with me to find a solution that allows me to get my yard work done. I asked if I could have one hour of work time without him coming out and yelling at me. He agreed to 30 minutes.

My husband is trying to figure out a way we can record him when he is having one of his extreme episodes.