Family and Caregiver Schizophrenia Discussion Forum

Paranoid Schizophrenia with Antisocial Personality Disorder and Violence


#1

Hi!

I’ve been with you a few times before and I have very much appreciated your input.
So now, I have still been trying to pray to find out what I can do for my brother since the psych docs say his prognosis is very poor…I know, you said it was dismal.
As you know, he’s threatening people with knives and has been arrested and hospitalized multiple times.
Nevertheless, I can’t leave him “out in the wilderness”.
Do you have any new ideas for me helping him?
As I’ve mentioned, I am so scared…I guess I just keep hoping for some “magic bullet” that will bring him into the life that he so richly deserves.
Thanks!


#2

I think the first step would be to call the police-tell them the situation and that they bring a Crisis Intervention officer along. Tell them what you have said here. They probably k now who he is-let them know you have all his paperwork giving you permission to get all information needed to get him into the hospital.
keep tabs on where he is, who the doctor is, what medications he is on, etc…
You can stay where you are-but call the hospital and speak with everyone you can.
After that, see that they do not release him until he is stable. Hopefully they will keep him for awhile. They might want to look at the info he sent to you.
They should also assign a case worker to him. Stay in touch with this person. He/she may be able to go to cour and have him admitted for longer if necessary.
That would be your first step. Take one at a time.
Good luck oo


#3

Hi Kathy,
So sorry for what you are going through. Hopefully your brother will come around, Where is he right now? In a safe place? Maybe there is someone who can help get through to him besides you. I know my son gets very agitated around me, he does better with other family members, I think I tried to help him too much.

See if you can inlist the help of someone else who may be able to communicate better with him. A friend or clergy member If you can get him into the hospital that would be best, My son sent a threatening txt to my sister who lives in California we live in Fla. She called the police here and they did find him and pic him up. He went to the hospital.

Above all take care of yourself. Stay safe. enjoy your life as much as you can, your brother would want you to. And don’t believe all the bad prognosis stuff. There is always hope, medications are getting better every year and a lot if people with schizophrenia go into remission around 40 or 50.

Your brother is blessed to have a sister like you. My brother had severe addiction problems for many years, he is better now but he told me how much he appreciates me sticking by him. That being said you also have a life I would hate to see you suffer to much because of your brother’s situation. I suffer too because of my son but I have learned to compartmentalize the situation and do what I can when I can, and then move forward with my life.

Take care


#4

run run run run run run

If not for you do it for your husband, wife, kids, and anyone else you love. Heck do it for you cat.

run run run run run.

There is no helping this person. I remember your earlier posts and I know that you really want to help him and I don’t know if you remember me but I’m the one with the nut ball sister.

Yeah, if he’s threatening people with knives… I wouldn’t be worried about him. I’d be worried about those around him. From what I remember you saying he can obviously take care of himself. It isn’t like he’s being pushed around or beaten up. It sounds like he with straight up cut a dude.

I remember what you said about him being a manipulator too. My sister is like that and she isn’t antisocial (as far as I know). I think she’s just a bit of a narcissist. I’m going to share with you a huge chunk of wisdom my Aunt shared with me. Bear in mind she was a social worker at a hospital so she has seen some sh*t. YOU (as a non manipulator) ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN AGAINST A MANIPULATOR. I repeat YOU as a (non manipulator) ARE NEVER GOING TO WIN AGAINST A MANIPULATOR.

I would like to stress my Aunt was a social worker in a hospital. I’m pretty sure that means she has seen domestic abuse, child abuse, and all that other stuff where manipulation of the victim and those around them play a key factor in the perpetrator being able to keep their victim(s) in their power.

My sister has her hooks so deep into my mom I don’t even see claw anymore. Just flesh to flesh contact. If your brother gets a hold of you, your life is going to become hell. If you decide you want to get away from him your life is still going to be hell. Heck it might get even more hellish because he now sees you as having ‘wronged’ or ‘betrayed’ him.

RUN

You DON’T want your children around this person, and if you help him out guess who’s going to take advantage of that to come to lunch?

His problems are not because he has sz. I have sza (schizophrenia with bipolar) and trust me. I went through a suicidal hell for at least nineteen of my twenty four years. I am very sympathetic. I actually joined this site (instead of without an account, browsing which I did for a number of months) for exactly this reason. Exactly what you’re going through except on a much smaller scale.

There was a guy who joined on here that asked what he should do about his ex girlfriend who had left him to look for other guys. She had gone off her meds because she hated having all the extra weight she had gained from her particular med and that’s when she went haywire. I’m the first person to tell people to stay with them. Keep your distance but stay with them. Usually there is some weed involved in the situation and that makes them go full on nuts. My advice to them is always to get away from them until they stop weed and then come back because odds on it’s the weed. I tell them to tell their boyfriend/girlfriend they will be there for them when they decide to quit weed and see what happens then.

But it isn’t weed this time. It’s antisocial personality disorder.

I did some messed up crud to my now fiancée C when we started dating. I gave away the flowers he gave me, I asked if his sister was single, and this was because I was very sick. I was too sick to realize this was inappropriate. I was too sick to feel love, but I NEVER cut someone I was NEVER violent. I NEVER threatened him or tried to manipulate him. I’ve been there and done everything innocently hurtful (as in I didn’t realize I was hurting him because I was so sick) but I NEVER hurt him to hurt him. That’s what your brother is doing and that’s what he’s going to do to you. He LIKES hurting people.

One of my friends summarized it perfectly when she told me what she said to someone who wanted to be friends with someone who had border line personality disorder. “You are a little fish and they are a shark.”

We both know this. That’s why you are on here asking I think. You love him and want to help him but you are asking because in your heart you know that would be a huge mistake.


#5

Hi!
I thank you so very much for responding to me!
I only hope that all of you kind and compassionate spirits out there can read my response because I’m not sure that I’m navigating this website correctly!

Amazingly, my twin sister has borderline personality disorder and, with my brother with paranoid schizophrenia + antisocial personality disorder + hepatitis C, it has been a very tough road to experience since they all blamed me and were vicious to me. My twin sister was horrible for a life time and my brother with schizophrenia has been demanding $4.3 million from me and I’m only a retired teacher in AZ that makes very little $.

But, both my borderline twin and my brother with schizophrenia have been on emotional disability for the majority of their lives so, to them, I look like a windfall of money since I’ve worked for 38 years.

So, my brother sent me his psych and arrest records so I could copy them and send them to Selena Maria Gomez…since he is not allowed into many stores to make copies himself. .I do not have clearance to talk to his docs, the courts, or the police.
As I’ve mentioned, I didn’t even know who she was! And he’s a 58 year old man.
Anyway, I guess I’m so glad that you remember me and my posts.
I bought a flight to go back to NY for my cousin’s wedding and cancelled it when my brother, who lives nearby in NY threatened me with rape.
And yes, he is carrying knives and has been arrested for this…
Pray to God to “cast out his demons” as the Bible says, and to heal his soul.
And yes!
I am very scared. Thank you so much for hearing me and for commiserating with this twisted reality (my twin and my brother) that has been a big piece of my reality for as long as I remember. I am so tired, confused and hog-tied by trying to make the irrational rational in such a way that I can respond to my siblings.

Please bless all of you for being out there with me…how can we ever navigate this or get over it all?


#6

Don’t look to God to cast out any demons. I’m not trying to say something bad about faith. It’s a wonderful thing. I just don’t think that’s the mindset you need right now. You need to think about YOU and how YOU are going to get through this. I know it’s hard for someone who’s fundamentally nice to think about themselves first, but if you feel like you need permission I’m giving it to you.

No, I’m no one important. Think about it like you’re an artist ready to unveil your masterpiece. Comments from others no matter how small can make all the difference so let this make a difference to you. You need to think about you or you aren’t going to get through this.

This is going to be hard but we’re all rooting for you. You can do this. You can beat this.

Maybe take up some karate or some other active empowering sport?


#7

A dangerous combination.


#8

HI There!

Again, I hope this response is going out to all of you kind people that heard me and offered your help.

Yes, I have gotten your permission to take care of myself. I know I cannot take on the illnesses of my borderline twin and my brother with schizophrenia and antisocial personality disorder…I tried everything possible for a life time.
And it would be grandiose of me to think that I could heal my loved ones.
Nevertheless, I grieve so much. Even though my borderline twin decimated me throughout our lives with very horrible rages against me (it was a repeated mind-changer that I couldn’t negotiate) I still bought into her rages since I thought, why would anyone rage against me for years if I did nothing wrong?
And today, she is better, but still extremely bizarre.
And my brother…as you know, to him I am just a vehicle for him to get $4.3 million, sue the courts, his psych hospital, the police, etc.
He never asks or cares how I am living here by myself.
And I grieve since I love both my twin and my brother…it’s like I have become their demon unless I subjugate myself to their rages and their demands…
do I even exist as a spirit to them?
Never! It’s all been about them screwing up my mind and demanding things I can’t even begin to understand.
I would, as God is my witness, do ANYTHING possible to help my siblings who I remember as so loving and cute as we grew up…and now the monster eats it’s tail and me too.

Thanks so much for listening…I need you.


#9

Have you ever been to therapy? I know you’re healthy and I’m not but for a long time I believed I had abused my sister because I couldn’t think of any other reason she would treat me this way. Just to check that they have no subconscious hold on you like my sister did me.


#10

Hi!

Thanks so much for responding!
Yes, I did 9 years of therapy due to my abusive childhood (which my borderline twin & my brother with schizophrenia + antisocial personality disorder also experienced).
I kept picking relationships that were abusive and I learned, intellectually in therapy, that I did not cause this, can not control it, and can not cure it.
Nevertheless, these were my little siblings that went through so much childhood trauma and then, once out of that house, were then struck down with their horrible illnesses instead of the freedom of leaving that abusive home to shine on their own… It just breaks my heart. How much hell on earth can we ever expect one human being to go through???
So I know I have survivor guilt…fine.
But in my position, I NEED to find some way to help my little siblings now that they’re all grown up, dealing with some extremely serious challenges.
I would not wish this on my worst enemy…why have their lives been hell every step of the way?

I do believe that I was relatively spared to help them.
If I send $ to my brother, he gets into extortion, demanding millions for him to buy his sports car.
My twin has been raging at me for a lifetime…a total mind f—k.
Nevertheless, what about compassion? I know it’s very dangerous for me to engage totally with my poor siblings. But I can’t just happily live my life when they are still tortured.
There, in essence, is my problem…I just cannot leave them out there fighting with their illnesses (like John Nash in “A Beautiful Mind”) and sit around here and plan my next party or some such.
Yes, I grieve for my beautiful siblings that have had more than anyone would ever dream in their worst nightmare to deal with…and for them, they never wake up from this nightmare.
How heinous!

I am so glad you all are out there…these are people who had a tough life time, from babies to today. I am dumbstruck by this.


#11

What about doing things they wouldn’t connect with you?

I can’t think of anything off hand but something that you could do that they wouldn’t see your hand in it (at least immediately).

I don’t know how sick your sister is but it might be harder than figuring out what to do about your brother. It might be good if you could get him committed (for his safety and everyone else’s). You could send him nice slippers, maybe treats for him and his therapy group, etc and he wouldn’t have to be any the wiser that you did it so he can’t extort you. I’m not saying get him committed for that reason. Threatening people with knives makes me think it might be a wise move. It might be good for him to be somewhere that will stop him from being sent back to prison.

I have no idea about the intricacies of boarder line personality disorder but has she tried therapy? I don’t know what your relationship is like but I initially tarred her with the same brush as one of the friends my close friend had for some time. She would threaten suicide for attention, lie to make people like her more (she told my friend she was secretly gay and told a different friend a conflicting story. She also told someone else she wanted to get closer to God and someone else something that conflicted with that) and my friend thought she might kill someone.

What is it you want to do for your sister and brother? What do you want to achieve?


#12

Hi!

Again, my most sincere thanks for you being out there and talking with me.
Yes, you described my borderline twin very well.
And I don’t have legal clearance regarding my brother.
The police say they can do nothing unless a crime is committed and his docs won’t talk to me at all do to HIPPA regs.
But you pose a great question!
What is it that I want to achieve?
I dream that they both could find some peace, comfort and rest from their illnesses.
I want to love them but my brother is too violent.
So, slippers, care packages to him at his run down strip motel room would be so nice! I’m sure I could find a way to get these things to him anonymously.
Anything to brighten his day would be wonderful!
My borderline twin…I have helped her so much with $, gifts etc.
Thank god she moved across the country from me and I don’t have her antics and her berating of me right here in town.

Again, thanks so much!


#13

Anything to help. :slight_smile:

For the longest time I was like that with my sister. It was trying to hug a squirming porcupine. I would still help her if she needed me (she’s family and you don’t turn your back on family. Lots of times they’re all you have when you need someone yourself) but I would try to keep my distance if she needed me and I know I have already advised this but you need to do the same.

You can’t help if you’re burnt out. Have you ever heard of care giver burn out? I don’t know what your situation would be. Extreme caretaker? As they don’t want to let you help them and they are trying to fight you every step of the way. I would look up some resources for that if you do want to continue with this. I like seeing you here but maybe some online support groups for relatives of people with personality disorders too?


#14

Good Morning!

Your advice and responses are like a breath of fresh air!
And yes! Referring me to someone else is perfect!


#15

I forget who it was that said we judge others by their actions but we judge ourselves by our intentions. Trust your gut.


#16

When he threatened to rape you, that was a crime.
If it happens again, take the opportunity to try to get him some help.
He doesn’t have to actually do anything - just demonstrate that he’s a danger to others.