I’m with you on all of that, but I don’t know how I’m ever going to be able to tell him.
I’ve told his doctor and his case manager what I’m doing. They did not comment, so I’m taking that as either it would be unethical for them to agree that I should do that, or they think it’s a bad idea.
At this point, I’m all about results and ethics would be a luxury I can’t afford.
Lord know I understand. The doctors will not comment on it, but they want tell you NOT to do it either. They know the MI system is broken and if it was up to them. They would give them their medication against our loved one will but they can’t. That’s why the say they can’t force them to take their medication. I wished I could get guardianship over my son, but he’s not incapacitated enough for me to get guardianship which is crazy! The laws for the MI needs to change. It seem like before they will help them. Our love ones has to be a danger to themselves or others…SMH… Hugs to you and your son!
One more thing… I love this forum. Before I found this website, I thought I was alone. And I was about to lose my mind. The members on this website has been so helpful and understanding… Hugs to you all!
Well, this won’t be the first time I’ve operated in a gray area, and I guess it won’t be my last.
I’m just going to do what needs to be done and not worry about the consequences.
It’s nice to know I’m not the only one who’s tried to do this, although now I’m kicking myself that it took me so long to think about doing it.
And, for everyone who reads this and thinks I’m dead wrong, you’re probably right. I’ll just add it to my long list of sins, shortcomings and human failures.
When I was going through this in the beginning with my son and I read that from other parents post of what they did to keep their loved one on their Meds. I thought to myself. I can’t do that, but after his 3 hospital stay and was heading for 4th one… I became desperate. In the beginning, my son had NO insight to his illness, but know he has a little because he will talk about it. I also let him listen to recordings and videos of himself when he wasn’t on his medication. My son was diagnosed with paranoid Sz on last year in September when he had his first psychotic break and was hospitalized, so when he see the videos and hear the recording of what he was saying and doing. He will say man I can’t believe I was doing that or saying those things…He’s going to his therapist and she educating him on the importance of being and staying on medication, hopefully, I will be able to get him to take it on his own real soon and tell him what I was doing to keep him out of the hospital. Be blessed! And only God can judge us! He knows our struggle and he knows everything that’s going on with our loved ones…
So sorry to hear about the multiple hospitalizations @myson and your challenges @slw. Gray areas are scary, but sometimes we as caregivers have to do what is necessary in the best interest of our loved ones. @slw you are coming from a place of love.
Medical institutions and physicians are concerned about legal liability, and so they should be… but laws make this extremely difficult for caregivers, and especially for those who are emotionally attached, e.g. mothers.
I often thought of doing same over the years re meds/food when my son was living with me. I didn’t only because some days he would take his meds and I didn’t know which days those were. He once doubled-up on his dose himself by accident and ended up in ER with a minor heart attack.
Have you talked to his doctor about RISPERDAL® at http://www.risperdalconsta.com/bipolar/bipolar/medicine-information as one option possibly? Friends of mine say it works great for their son. It’s a once per month injection (I think) which means your son would not have to think about it for a whole month.
My son also keeps going off his meds when he feels better, then he spirals downward… it’s a vicious repetitive cycle… and yes, extremely exhausting for me too. Wish he would try Risperdal but he refuses because he read on the internet that all psychosis meds shrink the brain. Like you @myson he’s not ill enough for me to regain guardianship. Agree, the law needs to change in favor of caregivers.
It’s very frustrating in Canada due to privacy law as well… my son almost did not get into the apartment because his government worker did not have his signature on a permission form saying they can talk to the landlord… even though he phoned both of them to acknowledge that I had his verbal approval to connect them and get the ball rolling on the rental application.
No one with mental illness should be required to jump through hoops and red tape… ever.
I’m not against anyone doing what they need to do and can do to help their family member.
And I’m pretty sure no one would ever judge you for trying to help someone you love.
That’s one of my son’s reasons too. And, how do you argue with that?
I’ve read the same things he has, but I’ve also read that the brain might shrink even without the meds.
It really happens, but anti-med people say it’s the meds - pro-med people say it’s the disease.
He’s just getting started with a case manager, and she’s going to try to convince hit to take a shot. so we’ll see.
I’d be more than happy to turn over my role as the Pill Nazi and let someone else do it.
Me & my son get along pretty good most of the time as long as I’m not pushing the meds on him.
It’s actually been very peaceful in the house now that I’m not trying to talk him into taking them.
EDIT: the research also isn’t sure if the shrinkage is a good thing or a bad thing. some theories say that it might be protective, similar to the theories that say SZ could be the normal synapse pruning that went too far.
I’ve also read some interesting research that says the SZ brain may produce too much of a certain protein, and the brain gets clogged up (kind of) - that makes sense to me too because Alzheimers/dementia has things in common with SZ, and they think that can be caused by plaque buildup in the brain - and fish oil which thins your blood can help prevent SZ symptoms to some degree.
I’m just happy there’s lots of research out there, although I fear any type of cure will be too late for my son since it doesn’t feel all that close yet.
@Hereandhere, You were one of the first parents that replied to my first post when I was going through that dark time with my son last year and you always gave good advices. I know you wouldn’t judge. Hugs to you!
It is hard to argue with research, and no one really seems to know for sure as much of the information we receive is conflicting. Go with your head and let your heart guide you as you need… every situation is unique.
It’s not easy being the pill Nazi… my heart goes out to you and I pray that his status will improve now that he has a case manager. It takes time and tons of love, patience, understanding… and self-education. I would not have made it this far had it not been for the moral support of a few dear friends.
I’ve also read that the Omega-3 in fish oil (e.g. vitamins) and Omega-3 eggs and other foods does help. I email health food articles about this to my son, and although he sometimes pretends not to read them, I know he does. They need to learn how to manage their diet themselves, and why. Every little bit helps.
“Hope is important because it can make the present moment less difficult to bear. If we believe that tomorrow will be better, we can bear a hardship today.” - Thich Nhat Hanh
I think that may be the most apt and appropriate quote ever - thank you.
I’m going to write it down right under my big DON’T TAKE IT PERSONAL reminder.
And, I think every time I get my hopes up and then get crushed (happens very often), that’s what hurts the most - for a little while, I think there’s no hope.
Then, my scheming mind comes up with a new plan, and I’m OK again - until it happens again.
Maybe this will be a good reminder for me so that I don’t feel so hopeless - it’s a bad feeling even if it only lasts a few hours. It’s like dropping into a bottomless pit of despair.
I already feel like I’m stuck in a nightmare some days - I’ll skip all the bottomless pits I can.
I was wondering this too. Because I have insight I can see when my supposed loved ones have lied. Lying is really the worst thing you would do, trust me. Psychosis is a temporary thing and you remember everything especially the lies by freaking family members.
Thanks for your thoughts - it’s always nice to hear from someone on the other side, but I think lying to someone, while not a good thing to do, is far from the worst thing that could happen. I, personally, always try to look past the action to the intention. If the intentions were good, I can get over the action.
I’ll admit lying to him is not how I’d like this to go down, but I think I’m picking the lesser of many evils.
Would lying be worse than letting him deteriorate and have to go to a hospital, a place that he hates, for weeks or maybe months? Where maybe they can help him, and maybe they can’t?
Would it be be worse than allowing him to just walk off with nothing because he thinks he has a million dollars in the bank and knows a bunch of movie stars?
Would it be worse than letting him get to the point that he thinks someone is going to kill him and he hurts them in self defense? (almost happened once - i talked him into giving me the knife.)
Would it be worse than letting him get to the point he kills himself like so many mentally ill people do?
Would it be worse than kicking him out on the streets because I simply can’t take it anymore?
We can debate for a long time, but lying is far from the worst thing you can do to someone.
I’ve seen really bad things happen to people, I’ve had friends not get help and die, and I know that he’s got less than a 50% chance of getting treatment if he goes to jail. I know people who have been to jail both healthy and sick, and I know people whose sick family members have been shot by the police when they thought they were calling for a crisis team, I know exactly what can happen.
And, he’s lied to me every time he’s promised me he’d take these #&#$&#* meds.
He’s also called me every name in the book, plus done some other things that hurt me more than the name calling. If I don’t tell him I’m giving him a specific med, I think we’re fairly even - especially when he’ll load his own body with any kind of poison he could get his hands on.
You’ve been extremely lucky. You have insight, you’re willing to let people help you, you’ve made incredible progress, you don’t seem like a drug addict.
Unfortunately, my son is nothing like you. Even with insight, he doesn’t want help - he has a typical male thing going that he can handle it all himself, on his own, without help. He’s always been that way, since he was a little kid - I don’t see it changing without something truly terrible happening that breaks who he is deep down inside. I don’t want to see that happen if I can help it.
So, right or wrong, good or bad, I’ll hold the pieces together for him when he can’t until I can’t hold them anymore. Maybe, one day, I’ll need someone to do the same for me. If they have to lie to me to make it happen, so be it.
Lying to your love one, or lying to the doctors , on behalf of something you think they’ll do, rather than what True to what happened is really the worst thing you can do. It will spiral out of control if you lie on behalf of your loved one. Lying is not love. If you’ve lost your loved ones trust because you lied, it’s a very deep hole to climb out from, and you probably never will if you think Lying is justified.
Don’t assume that what I said was conjecture. He’s been talking about suicide since he was 15. He’s now 27. He’s even joked that the only reason he’s never followed through is he simply doesn’t have the energy. So he routinely feels like life isn’t worth living and he deserves to die - he’s just never put together a means or a way to follow through. He’s allowed to freely talk about suicide at home without judgment - and I’ve been very clear that we can talk about it all day long, but the moment he has a plan, we need to get him into immediate treatment.
Many people in our family have attempted suicide. Some have been successful. If I say that someone might kill themselves, it is not a joke or an exaggeration - I am being completely serious, and I’m offended that you would assume that I would lie about that to anyone. No where in my thread have I ever said I would lie about what my son might do to manipulate the doctors or the hospital. That is very different from giving him his meds and not telling him what he’s taken, and if you think differently, you need to reevaluate your thought process.
I’ve also promised him I would never take him to the hospital unless he wanted to go or I feared for his life. That is a promise I will not break.
Trust me, this is not anywhere close to the worst thing I could do.
No one can tell me I don’t love my son. I would literally kill someone if it would make him better. In fact, the reason that I am doing this is that I love him too much, and that’s why I started this thread. Maybe, my love is not letting him move on and get the help that he needs. However, I can’t bring myself to watch him slowly destroy himself if it’s in my power to stop it. I can’t and I won’t.
I would also not stand there and watch him jump off a bridge because he thought he could fly - to me, this is the same thing.
On the other hand, if he was in his right mind, and had a terminal disease and wanted to refuse treatment, I would support that decision. Because he would be capable at that time of making a real choice.
He is, in no possible way, competent to make his own decisions.
In fact, if he outright hated me, this would all be easier. I would do what I had to do to get him on court ordered injections and be done with it.
I think the two of us are just going to have to agree to disagree - apparently, this is a sensitive subject for both of us, and I’m afraid it will end badly if I don’t disengage, so that’s what I will do.
I really think you yourself needs a consultation with a pdoc. Those are strong irrational statements you’re making throughout your post. Good luck. I hope the son is on the forum where he can find support.
I’d appreciate it if you do not respond to my posts anymore, and I’ll make a point to avoid you.
I don’t know many parents who wouldn’t go to any lengths to help their children.
I am obviously not going to kill anyone, because there’s no way it would make him or anything else better. It was an illustration of my frustration and desperation - not a strong, irrational statement.
Maybe you should talk to your therapist about why you’re so quick to judge other people who are struggling.
I appreciate the passive aggressive ending too - thanks for that.
Good luck to you and have a nice life.
My general rule in life is to avoid pot-heads. Since your a self proclaimed pot head, I’ll keep away from anything you say too, you’re not credible.
Where did I say I’m a pot head? I said I do not smoke because it does not agree with me. I do however do some online freelance work for the cannabis industry and I’m an advocate for legalization and research. I am far from a pot-head and I’ve worked for nearly 30 years in another industry that does regular drug tests due to security protocols and government regulations. If I was a pot head, I’d have lost that job a long time ago.
I’m not ashamed of that, and unlike you, I do not make assumptions about people and then attack them.
I believe that’s against the rules on this forum.
Again, please leave my thread alone and stop acting like a troll just because I don’t agree with what you have to say.
@slw take heart, I know the guilt that comes with lying but it is not the worst thing a loving mom like you or I could do, I tend to believe that the worst thing we can do is just let them flounder without the mental where-with-all to know what is best for them. When my son is delusional he believes I lie about everything under the sun…whether I do or not…When he is stable and lucid, I have no reason to lie to him and he trusts me. BUT if I had to lie to get him to take his medicine, you can believe I would. I look at it like medicine=life. No medicine =life threatening. Nothing under the sun would guilt me into leaving my son’s welfare in his own hands when the voices and visions take over. Been there done that…not a nightmare I would willingly revisit. I admire you and your tenacity and I think you should trust your gut more than anything else, I believe your heart is definitely in the right place. My best to you.
I’ve done the same thing. We get desperate and tired. They just don’t understand sometimes and don’t grasp the seriousness. I feel good about where my son is right now but I know I’m living shot to shot, and things could go bad again any day. I’m hopeful but realistic. This is a very serious illness. I couldn’t stand seeing my son so sick, so yes, I’ve done the pills in food too. Stay strong. You’re a great mom.