I understand your position toward your daughter. My son can be abusive and manipulative. Sometimes, he drives me all the way to a wall and feel I wish I can take a long break from dealing with him. but, I think for few minutes and say to myself if I don’t take care if him, who will!
cannot wait to get the help and get him into a hospital soon.
of course you deserve to live in peace and also your grandchildren deserve good life. do they miss their Mom. how old is your daughter? and how long has she been in group home?
I would say while he probably feels depressed, and actual depression isn’t his biggest issue. If he has had suicidal thoughts he has never acted on them, to my knowledge.My son suffers from psychosis constantly. There are lighter days and heavier days, but no days without psychosis.
Yesterday he emerged from his place while I was working outside. The dogs had barked at a squirrel which probably triggered his constant delusion that the dogs are trying to kill his cat when she’s outside. The reality is that the animals like each other. One of the dogs went to greet him and as she approached him she stopped a distance from him and began barking at him. If he’s mildly psychotic, she doesn’t bark, when he’s fully lost in psychosis, she barks.
He was muttering darkly at me and the dogs, his eyes weren’t focusing on us at all. He muttered louder and it was garbled speech - I could understand a word or two - I know he said the word “dog”. I stayed where I was and just said “The dogs are barking at squirrels, your cat is okay”. More dark garbled muttering was his response. I could tell he was not processing what I said at all. I stepped to where he couldn’t see me because I know his voices will start him hearing me saying things I am not saying and that would escalate the encounter.
The dog backed up to where I was, but stayed where she could see him until he went back inside his place. He turned off his air conditioning so he would be able to listen to us better - so I knew he was just sitting inside listening, waiting to emerge again. I moved my outside work to the other side of the property.
Several hours later after lunch, I was sweeping an area on my back patio. He must have heard the sweeping because the dogs hadn’t barked, he emerged, same scenario except I didn’t say anything the second time, I just kept sweeping.
Since Jeb was in hyper psychosis mode, my husband stayed inside our house when he got home from work. Doesn’t always work, even if he doesn’t see his dad, Jeb has just shown up outside our windows yelling at his dad. Jeb has explained to me that he doesn’t have to listen to his dad talking trash about him - that he needs to yell back to make his dad stop.
In the evening, Jeb left to go grocery shopping. I know that he has frightened people when he’s out and about. He has told me that people have locked doors in small stores so he couldn’t come inside. You would think he will be arrested when he’s out and about, but it hasn’t happened. He hasn’t ever hurt anyone. He always says “I’ve never been violent” when meds are discussed.
If Jeb thought something in his life would get better with a 3 day greyhound trip, he would be on a bus.
My daughter is 34 years old and was diagnosed with sz at 19. She has only been in a group home for about 3 months now. I’ve advocated for her from the time I first saw glimpses of her mental illness when she was 15 years old and when it became clear at 19 she was mentally ill I knocked on every door to find her help. Recently I advocated for her to live in a group home because I wanted her safe and off the street and continuing to live with me and her children was not sustainable.
I love her children as my own and will raise them until they are ready to fly on their own. Foster care was never an option for my grandchildren. The thought of them being in the foster care system was too heartbreaking to consider.
I find it interesting how in-tune your dog seems to be with your son’s mental state. It is good you have that animal to assist you.
When my son was not med-compliant and out and about a lot, his behavior around other people was often a problem, even tho he was not violent. Landlords would get complaints about him from female tenants - because they felt unsafe around him, even tho I knew he was not really a threat. He was banned from some places, just because he made people feel ‘uncomfortable’. That was very frustrating. One shop owner was concerned not for other people’s safety, but for my son’s. They were worried he would approach the wrong person and end up getting assaulted.
My hobby used to be dog behaviors. Dogs express hostile behaviors amongst themselves for various reasons, even good tempered dogs tend to recognize hostility, most will respond in some manner. When he’s overwhelmed by his psychosis, my son becomes angry. I believe the dog is responding to the anger. When he’s mildly psychotic, he’s not angry. While one of my dogs “alerts” on his psychosis, its the other dog, the male, that would intervene if there was physical aggression. Yes, good pair to have around. Helps me sleep nights and garden in peace.
My son’s last landlord was pretty understanding and fielded many complaints from my son. My son would call him constantly to report the neighbors were threatening him, etc. The neighbor thought it would help my son relax if he befriended him. When he stopped by my son’s home for a friendly chat, my son showed him a gun - supposedly, as a matter of conversation. I can imagine this being true as my son was obsessed with guns and always talking about them. The neighbor called the landlord who totally freaked out and called me demanding I get the gun away from my son within 24 hours or he would evict him.
You know how we will question someone who had an experience with our mi family members? When I said “He just showed him the gun, he didn’t threaten him with it, is that correct?” The landlord hung up on me.
I wasn’t trying to downplay what had occurred, I just wanted to know the details.
Yep, just trying to ‘get the facts’ can be construed as being ‘confrontational’ or even ‘aggressive’ when questioning someone about experiences with my son. Then I would get frustrated and then I WOULD get angry!
Thanks for sharing your son experiences. it is interesting how dogs can feel your son psychosis. I thought about getting a dog for my son but he wants a RottWeiler and I was told that this type of dog are aggressive. I have never took care of a dog in my life.
aren’t you afraid that your son you will the gun to harm himself?
what age was your son diagnosed with the illness?
HIs psychosis started at age 27, he wasn’t diagnosed until age 31. He was 29/30 when the psychosis became so severe he could no longer work.
We did as his doctor suggested in regards to the gun. We offered him money to buy his guns - turns out he had several at that point. Since he has purchased guns before, he may have purchased another one. When we have access and he’s not home, I search his place for guns or signs of guns. I haven’t found any, but we have to suspect its possible all the same.
I was working under his place one time and I know I startled him because I heard him jump up and run across his floor. The next sound I heard was a loud “zipper” - like he was opening some sort of zippered case. I haven’t been able to find a zippered gun case, but he could have it with him when he’s not home.
We had to tell the police that it was possible he had a gun when his dad became frightened and had called them. It becomes a whole different situation when there’s a gun involved, but we have to tell them about the possibility for their own safety.
Rotties tend to be protective of their people and their homes.
Dogs require a lot of care and a regular schedule, I strongly recommend them for the people who live with a family member with mental illness as a means of protection, if such a thing is needed. I personally know a woman who was saved by her dog when her daughter was successfully choking her after many death threats. I tried to talk another women in my FTF class, who had a violent mi son who threatened to kill them constantly, into a dog for protection. She just seemed confused by the idea. Her son killed her and her husband by beating them to death with a sledgehammer. Her son was a duel diagnosis. He was so ill they haven’t even been able to get him stable for trial. The last posting in the court system returned him to a maximum security state mental facility.
Jeb’s never mentioned suicide.
We have 2 mixed dogs - Rottie/Husky/Wolf.
They love my son. The male would probably sleep in his bed, on top of him, if he allowed it. As it is, he’ll come in the living room & get halfway on my son’s lap as if he was a lapdog. The female is more reserved with everyone, but she loves him too.
When he’s sicker, they tend to spend more time in their crates, but otherwise, they’re OK around him.
However, he’s usually more scared than angry - and he’s only had very rare & very mild cases of being violent, and never with me.
seems like your son is somehow in control of himself.
Good that your son never mentioned suicide!
was he ever been on meds? does he understand the benefits of the meds!
I know dogs are good to have around but I am working 2 jobs and I have a roommate in the house that he may not feel comfortable with a dog.
I will see after my son get stable and if he wants a dog, I may get him one.
My son wanted to have a gun when his was living in his Condo alone in Virginia during College. he started getting scared and was always asking to buy a gun. I refused to let him buy a gun because I was afraid he may use it by mistake and shoot someone.
I am so sad about the story of the woman and her husband who were killed by their mi son. what a life…parent are happy to bring a son to life so he will kill them By sledgehammer. what a horrible way to die!
Right now, my son is coming back home tomorrow and he will served with court order paper for the guardianship Monday. I know, he will be very angry with me. but this is for his own good. I will be able to follow up with his Social security disability case and get more involvement in his treatment.
My son get upset only when I talk to him about medicine. as long as I do not mention meds, he talk to me OK. but the issue is he is getting more delusional and needs to be hospitalized.
You and Hope are now convincing me that a dog is good to have around the house and especially if this helps my son to be happier.
Maybe, if your son bonds with the dog & does a lot to take care of it, it will get his mind off his delusions and give him a reason to want to stay home instead of travel again?
We have dogs & cats, plus my son has a pet rat, and we have a rabbit outside. My son seems to enjoy them all.
You seem to have more influence over your son than we do. The studies show that the older they are before the psychosis overwhelms them, the more they can do for themselves. It makes sense I guess, they’ve already had more life experiences. What it doesn’t say is how far away they are from parental control when they are older. My son hadn’t lived at home since he left for college - nine years before his active psychosis started.
Hoping all goes well fro you Monday and hoping he arrives home safely.
Sorry, didn’t respond to your med question. He was prescribed several anti-psychotics over the years, he just threw them into the garbage in front of us. He took one, for about 10 days once. He began to respond really well to the med, it was amazing to watch, we were so hopeful. They increased the dosage and his arms began flipping around on their own and he freaked out. That was the last time he took an anti-psychotic.
Since he does seem to somehow recover himself -somewhat- in extreme moments, he’s never been hospitalized for treatment. Our FTF leaders had never experienced someone with scz that hadn’t just totally lost it at some point and ended up in jail or an ER. I suspect there are others like him out there, maybe they don’t have psychosis as constant and severe as he does that we don’t see their parent at support groups and such?
When he’s overwhelmed and angrily muttering, its important to not approach him. He will withdraw back into his place if he’s left alone.
Someone wrote this in another thread about having a violent family member. I identify with the words as being one of those caregivers who can’t find a safe way to get our mi family members into a recovery program. We present a problem without solutions.
"I think we’re a small club no one wants to be in. The frustration is we really, really need support and understanding and getting connected to others walking this lonely and dangerous path is very hard. No one wants to help because we in this country are so stuck on recovery the families of those who can’t recover are a problem to be ignored least we burst the bubble that recovery isn’t possible for some.
Hope, I am crying a lot a night. I have the guardianship and he is here. He will be served this afternoon. I know he will hostile toward me. I have trying to convince him by talk to comply. But it is no use. Nothing can convince him.
Dear @CAAR2016, I hope everything goes alright.
Please try to take care of yourself with healthy food and rest, or even better – a decent amount of sleep.
What you are going through is so hard and stressful.
I hope this works out well for you and your son.
I know everyone is thinking of you and hoping for the best. Sometimes things we do work out well, just differently than we thought. Lots of thoughts, Hope
How is it going, thinking of you. Hope
it was like close to a death experience
my Son returned home last Thursday and was served the court order Friday to appear in court this morning
he took it so hard and cried a lot and he was begging me to cancel it. I tried to explain to him that I am doing it for his own good but he did not want to understand. he just thought that I wanted to force him into Mental hospital and control him.
My heart was broke for him and almost called my lawyer to cancel the Guardianship.
but I said to myself, this my chance for me to help him to get SSD benefits and be able to talk to medical team on his behalf when his become really symptomatic.
when he saw that I am not changing my mind, he tried to become violent toward me and wanted to punch me on my face but I hold his hand then called my lawyer who called the police.
Police assisted me in taking to Hospital. But the Hospital ER pdoc did not find him symptomatic. he was able to hide his symptoms. I talk to pdoc and other doctors who checked him and explained the history and also showed them the guardianship order.
ER/pdoc gave him a 500mg depakote with an Ivy and 100mg Chlorpromazine(Thorazine).
I request that he get admitted to Phyciatric unit for few days since he has to appear in court Monday.
but pdoc said that my son accepted to take meds daily and to follow up with his primary psychiatric doctor and no need to keep him overnight. he explained to my son that he must take the meds, otherwise it will be admitting next week.
he kept arguing with me in the Hospital Room until my head became like balloon and requesting to cancel the Guardianship and not to force him on meds. At the end of the night, he was exhausted and slept for few hours. Then, he was discharged Saturday early morning.
Saturday, everytime I give him his pill morning, afternoon and evening, he would argue with me for like few minutes.
then he would propose to only take the meds for 21 days then stop, then he would day, what about taking the meds for 14 days and then take the greyhound to CA to see if my headache would go away.
I just had miserable time with him Saturday. I felt that I am killing his spirit.
Sunday, he ate just little in the morning ( no appetit) and took his pill with lots of efforts then he requested to be driven to a place close to public library and did not want me to be with him. He ask me to leave him for couple hours and pick him up about 5pm.
I did not think that he would try to escape since he did not take his Backpack and did not even take his phone charger.
at 4:40PM, called him and he cell phone was shut off.
Called my brother in California and my brother said that he may had took off with greyhound but he was not sure!
Called the police to report him as missing person then my brother called me and confirmed that he took the greyhound to CA because my son called him.
Well, this is the 3rd time he leaves to California in the past 7 weeks. I know he had $200 in his pocket.
I had asked him to hand it to me and I promise to save it for him but he refused and he was sleeping with his wallet next to him so I would not take his money.
Last night/Sunday, my son called me and started to negotiate a time frame to take the meds and put conditions for returning home.
He said he would returns home and take the meds for only 3 weeks if I promise that I would not hospitalize him.
I made it clear to him that he must comply with the meds for long time.
So, As you see going through the cycle all over again…
this morning, I was granted the Guardianship since my john did not show up!
Just need patience and prayers…
If I were you, as hard as it is, I would refuse to negotiate.
I would just say that it’s not up to you, it’s up to the doctors, and he has to take the meds they say he should take until they say he doesn’t have to anymore.
I know exactly how hard it is to try to get strict after you’ve been lenient, but a doctor once told me that if my son continued to be in control of everything, he’d have a hard time getting better.
At least you know where he’s headed & that he’s safe for the moment - and you have those guardianship papers if you need them!