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Violent Episode Tonight


#101

Trileptal & Zyprexa are good drugs when they work.

However, you’re kind of in dire straits & I wouldn’t wait too long to consider a trial a failure, especially if they put him back in patient.

I’m kind of in my cheerleader mode for Clozapine right now. I’m reading that it’s used much more often in Europe, but in the US, it’s considered the drug of last resort and doctors are very resistant to prescribing it. But, it’s also known to kind of kick people right out of some pretty bad psychosis.

I kind of feel like under the circumstances, a drug of last resort might be appropriate in your son’s situation to avoid some type of tragedy. Maybe you can start asking some questions about how well they think it would work in your son’s case?

The conduct disorder puts a twist on it that’s different than what most of us are dealing with, but I don’t know how they can diagnose that while psychosis is present, especially if a mood disorder is also part of the mix.


#102

No suggestions, just wanted to say that I am sorry that you, your husband and son are going through this. It’s very sad. No where to go but up from here, right? Hope things start getting better soon🌹


#103

Here’s the even harder part: P-doc at the hospital only wrote him 30 days worth of all his meds. Since he’s locked up, how in the world am I supposed to get refills? If they seem to be working that is…The hospital staff knew where he was going and knew how long he was expected to be there. It’s not like I can check him out and take him to see a p-doc. This is beyond difficult.


#104

In Virginia, you have a right to see your own doctor even if you’re in jail.

I have seen both adults & juveniles pass through my son’s doctor’s office in custody.
The only thing is the family has to pay the expense of the transport & guards - I know they have to pay for adults anyway, I’m not sure about juveniles.

The jail, or juvenile facility, is also required to provide medical treatment inside as applicable - that might include both mental and physical.

If it was me, I’d be learning how the laws work where you are.

Again, I’m in Virginia, but all our state statutes can be found online and most are readible enough for you to understand. I’d be pushing everyone I could push to keep him medicated while he’s there.


#105

They have all his meds, as I provided them to the deputy who was driving him to his destination yesterday. I will look up the statutes and see what I can find out. Thanks for your input, slw!


#106

All: I wanted to share a lengthy article that was written by our local newspaper, The Oklahoman. It accurately depicts the terrible mental health situation here in my state, Oklahoma. Beyond sad. If you have the time, take it to read this. Some personal stories in here about people with sz who died in prisons in Oklahoma. It makes me scared for my son.

It’s called “Epidemic Ignored - A Broken System” True that…

http://newsok.com/article/5526388


#107

I think you are doing the right thing because your son is not yet stabilized.

Talk to the facility about his medications and make sure they have them for him to take. There is probably a prescriber that works for the facility; you can release records to them there so they know what to prescribe when the 30 days are up.

Leaving him there is hard, but ask yourself: can you keep him safe if he is home? Can you keep yourselves safe?

The main problem would be that if he were released during this time, he could get more charges and a worse outcome for his current court case.

We have been through similar. It was incredibly difficult to leave family member incarcerated, but ultimately turned out okay.


#108

"The cost of a year of state-funded mental health treatment: $2,000.

The cost of a year in prison for someone with serious mental illness: $23,000."

Makes no sense whatsoever. We all need to become activists. How many of you have read the book, No one cares about crazy people."?


#109

I think you are doing the right thing of the limited choices you have available. The article you posted is how it is in states like ours - my state is the same. We are trying to change the laws and provide options with some new laws that are going to make it possible for vendors from other states to operate group housing for the mentally ill coming directly from jail.

Our sheriff went to the state recently to plea for some help. We are a small county and he claims “his jail is full of mentally ill people and he has no place to send them”.


#110

I read that book; it’s really well written and comprehensive. Along with the sorrow of the author’s personal story, it’s one of the books I wish more people would read.


#111

Long term exposure to neuroleptic drugs and their harsh side effects may be causing violent behavior rather than stopping it. Imagine if you had to experience akathisia for a decade.

“Akathisia is an intensely unpleasant feeling characterized by muscle discomfort, inability to sit still, continuous agitation, restlessness, and fidgety feelings. Sleep may be disturbed by an inability to lie down. Some patients say they feel like jumping out of their skin”

“On this regime, she usually developed an episode of akathisia during the week following her injection. She described several such episodes as follows: ‘I just get these attacks of tension. I don’t feel right. My stomach feels strange. It’s like I’m churning inside. I feel hostile and I hate (with intense affect) everybody.”

“Akathisia is often associated with strong affects of fright, terror, anger or rage, anxiety, and vague somatic complaints.”

“Patients have described the inner restlessness and agitation of akathisia in many other ways, such as: ‘My nerves are just jumping’ I feel like I’m wired to the ceiling; I just feel impatient and nasty. I can’t concentrate; it’s like I got ants in my pants; my nerves are raw; I just feel on edge; I feel just nasty; I feel like jumping out of my skin; if this feeling continues, I would rather be dead. I can’t describe the feelings; I’m quivery from the waist up; I want to climb the walls; I feel all revved up; it’s like I got diaper rash inside.’”

Quotes from: Neuroleptic Drugs, Akathisia, and Suicide and Violence.


#112

More descriptions of akathisia: "The patient suffers from akathisia, an unbearable feeling of inner restlessness that manifests in movement. Whether the person shuffles the feet back and forth, or repeatedly rises and sits from the chair or paces in place, remaining immobile is nearly impossible. The symptoms may arise as a side effect of medications. Neuroleptic antipsychotics (the major tranquilizers)…are known to bring about the problem. People with Parkinson’s disease, and Huntington’s disease may suffer with the condition.

The patient describes rage, feeling like he must fight against the world. He doesn’t want to meet people for lunch, go for a walk, leave the house or exercise. He feels he constantly maintains equilibrium by practicing anger management. He gets no relief, and he states he’s worn down by the constant agitation, anxiety and feeling of coldness. Whatever the physician has tried is not working. He needs a new solution as fast as possible…The muscles of your jawbone go berserk, so that you bite the inside of your mouth and your jaw locks and the pain throbs. For hours every day this will occur. Your spinal column stiffens so that you can hardly move your head or your neck and sometimes your back bends like a bow and you cannot stand up. The pain grinds into your fiber … You ache with restlessness, so you feel you have to walk, to pace. And then as soon as you start pacing, the opposite occurs to you; you must sit and rest. Back and forth, up and down you go in pain you cannot locate, in such wretched anxiety you are overwhelmed, because you cannot get relief even in breathing. Jack Henry Abbot, In the Belly of the Beast (1981/1991)."

“Akathisia is another common EPS. 32, 46, 53-55 Akathisia is distinct in being defined by subjective as well as objective features, more often affecting the lower extremities, remaining a problem even with SGAs, and being less responsive to treatment. Subjectively, patients complain of inner tension, restlessness, anxiety, urge to move and inability to sit still, and drawing sensations in the legs. Observable motor features are complex, semi-purposeful and repetitive, including foot shuffling or tapping, shifting of weight, rocking, pacing incessantly and even running. Although the severity of these sensations varies with stress and arousal, they can become intolerable and have been associated with violence and suicide. 53, 55” From: Movement Disorders Induced by Antipsychotic Drugs: Implications of the CATIE Schizophrenia Trial.


#113

Wes B - Thank you so much for giving me more insight on the medications. My son wasn’t on the anti-pscyhotics since 7 1/2 for all those years without a break. He had told me that the voices stopped when he was probably 9 1/2 or 10. So the anti-pscyhotics were stopped for many years. Then about 1 1/2 years ago, he told me that the voices never stopped. He had the intelligence to understand the stigma of mental illness even at that young age, so he told us they stopped. They had really amped up as his adolescence progressed and he was wanting help again, so he told us the truth. My husband is bipolar and he couldn’t take Abilify because he said it made him feel like he wanted to jump out of his skin. He took it for a week or so and said no more.

It is really helpful to hear from someone who has the illness. My son doesn’t tell me these things, although I wish he would. It would help me to understand what he’s going through.


#114

Your input is invaluable!! Please keep sharing!! These are things we need to know but our loved ones are incapable of telling us!! I truly believe that if more people talk and more people listen, this terrible mi can be drastically improved!! #endthestigma

Much love and prayers!!


#115

Thanks! I appreciate what you said.


#116

Update for all: I talked to my son last night for the first time since he has been in the present juvenile (jail) facility. He said the combination of the drugs the doctor at the hospital put him on has really helped (Zyprexa and Trileptal). He used to chew his nails to the point where they bled. He is no longer chewing his nails and he said he feels so much better. I am glad to hear this, of course. He also said he has been reading the Bible and praying. He has been a self-proclaimed Atheist since about age 13 even though we attended church regularily when he was little and his dad played on the worship team. (I know, some kids turn away from religion as teenagers…I totally get that.) Anyhow, he is claiming he is much better and wants us to bail him out and let him come home. The minute he said this, I felt anxiety wash over me. I told him I would discuss with his dad and we would call him later. My feeling is he needs to go ahead and go through what the juvenille system had in mind for him so he can feel the consequences of his actions. I think if we bail him out, this behavior will start up again (whether it can be pinpointed to his illness, drinking alcohol or what, I think that is a moot point - he gets violent and hurts us is the bottom line) unless he really understands the concept of “if I do this, then I will be taken away from my home where I’m comfortable and feel safe and I will have to live in a jail cell without my creature comforts.” I really would like to hear what the rest of you think about this. Of course, I’m torn. He’s my youngest, I love him. But I also wonder if he is manipulating us…telling us what we want to hear. It’s terrible to feel like you can’t trust what your child is telling you.


#117

Where he’s at he is safe and being watched so he can’t hurt himself. Are you certain, if you bailed him out, that he wouldn’t try to hurt himself again?

Also, has he apologized to his father yet? If he hasn’t shown remorse, that’s not a good sign.


#118

@LisaS From my experiences with my son, I would say that right now he is safe where he is. I don’t like being so skeptical but my son quickly learned how to be very manipulative when he was in and out of the hospital, so that I would take him home…and I fell for it the first 6 times. His last stay, I didn’t. It’s hard because of the love we have for them, and the need to believe that this was all a nightmare and is now getting better. It sounds like the meds are helping, but they need time to really get into the system which takes months. My son would promise me everything, and he really would look somewhat better. Sometimes I think he really believed he would take his meds and comply with the Doctor’s orders when he got out, but until that last time, he would always stop taking the meds within a week of getting home. Your son is not the same as mine though. As Mom, you have to go with what your gut is telling you. Just from your post, I can see what it’s saying. Either way, we are all here for you as much as we can be.


#119

post deleted, post deleted


#120

Mary I agree with your parents and family members. My son has always been taken by force and I too placed him in a group home, because I was seriously injured and had to have facial reconstruction to my right temple and cheek bone that replaced with titanium steel. Unless the group home is not providing being a safe place for your son, would be the only reason to move him to another place, but not home. At home it is too easy for him to slip back to his old ways even on meds. My son has done this several times and my wife and I end up being attacked even while on the meds. Out of my love for our son have I allowed him to return to our home and now he is right back in the same shape he was before, non compliant with taking his meds nor attending any of his appointments as stated in the MH agreement with his doctor and therapist. I know that we want our child back, but they are not the same anymore with this type of mental illness.