When saying you are sorry no longer means anything


#21

Yes, this. We need something that understands what and why is sz rather than trying to understand the individual actions and symptoms of sz. All the standard human actions are not anywhere near enough to achieve this. We need more than standard actions, lots more.


#22

Of course. Bizarrely this is one of the big reasons for sz to exist- unhandled control. Yes we need to control people who are unable to internally control themselves but tip the model upside down, what if we had the technology to give the person back the ability to have full control over themselves in a manner that didn’t compromise the existence of others. Then we don’t need to go to all these ridiculous lengths to control people who are malfunctioning.

In engineering terms the present situation is a divergent model- the more of a certain aspect that is fed forward, the more unstable the model becomes. This is all we need to explain the exponential global rise in mi. To create a convergent model where the aspects which are fed forward tend towards a stable state has to become the objective and we won’t achieve this by any presently used techniques or technology. Not by a long shot.


#23

I agree with you, but it’s a little more complicated than that. One wrong move and all goes boom. It’s not like you can replace everything in the brain without damaging another part – or even if we could remove it completely and build a new one, it would most likely not be the same person we know and love. They would be completely different – thought patterns and orginality would all be gone. Currently there are studies being done on this and simulations to replace tissues and create new organs, but it would take at least a century for something like that to exist for the brain. And it would be one of the most controversial procedures and studies considering it alters humanity completely – would the person still be a human or an android?


#24

I have aspergers or some form of it that is mild enough to let me have employment and not need state support. I agree with you that there will never be a cure for autism, just not for the same reasons as you. We cannot cure something that doesn’t exist, and autism doesn’t exist other than an observable collection of similar behavior traits. It is a state, not a condition.

The model that we presently use to describe the human being is far to simple to be of any use to solve these things. We are still officially a “sack of chemicals” that is here purely as a product of time and random chance. This is unworkable for solving complex problems. This doesn’t consider the interaction between physical and virtual, or hardware and software in engineering terms. Officially we have no ‘software’, i.e. there is no meta-physical element to the human and therefore any condition can be treated with hardware cures such as medication. This is completely inadequate and will only result in a bigger mess than we already have.

If we consider the human being as a product of extremely high quality engineering (disregarding who or what is the engineer) then we can have a model that converges to a stable state. It also requires that we have a meta-physical component that is not purely a product of “chemicals in the brain” or “genes” or whatever other simplified statements we hear today. Once we understand the hardware/software interface that exists in all of us, then we can effect a workable fix for these little, um, bugs that we all have. The hardware will follow suit, just as it does if we start exercising or learning something complicated like the piano.


#25

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_transplant
http://www.brainybehavior.com/blog/2008/04/first-successful-brain-transplant/


#26

If it’s a state, then it’s also a condition by the laws of semantics. While everything is else that you’re saying is true, it would take in depth studying and years to reach such an understanding in order to contruct not only a model, but many fit to what the individual desires and sees fit. That being said, there will always be a moral dilemma of what is the “correct” way of being and what structure is there to be had. If there was only one way, then we would all most likely just be androids.


#28

Science doesn’t know enough about the brain to even begin to imagine a hypothesis for a solution to mental illness. I agree with you, Doctor, on SZ being incurable. You sound like someone who has been put thru the wringer and has literally reached the end of her rope and completely hopeless. I can relate with going thru this with my husband for the last 3.5 years and how it has just worn me out to the point I really don’t know what I want to do anymore and the stress has got me depressed. My husband and I are currently living apart because he is not allowed in his mother’s house anymore by order of his sister, who is power of attorney over his mother. We have been living with and taking care of my inlaws for about 6 years. When my husband was arrested a month ago for vandalism during a psychotic break, my sister in law forbade him from coming back into the house. So now, he is living in a motel and my son and I are still living at my in laws house. I have been struggling for about a month to figure out if I want to rent an apartment with him or separate and go on my own with my son. It has been absolute hell and I have come to the realization that the only thing that holds him together is his meds. It is sad because prior to 3.5 years ago, my husband was fine, other than suffering from depression over losing our business and from what I understand the depression is what brought on the SZ. My husband shuts me out during psychosis, he talks very little when he is on meds, he doesn’t let me be involved with his doctor visits. All of these things, I told him, need to change if he wants to prevent a relapse. If I can’t talk to his doctor to let them know what is going on, and he won’t tell them what is going on in fear of being hospitalized, then all is lost and he will continue to be on the revolving door of institutions.
I know he wants better for himself, but he can’t wrap his head around it, nor does he have insight into his own illness. Frankly, I am tired of paying a price and I am tired of my son paying the price for his illness. He is like a small child running with scissors who trips, falls and injures himself and then wants complete understanding from me after I told him not to run with scissors. If he doesn’t allow me to help him then I cannot live with him, plain and simple.
This illness/condition will never be understood because scientists and doctors don’t know enough about the brain. It’s too complex to figure out. For me, it is sheer sadness to see my husband go thru this. I lost a man who was kind and compassionate to others. A man who literally talked my ear off when I first met him and taught me so many things about politics, voting, compassion…this list goes on. I feel like I have been robbed and my son, which is the worst part, has been robbed of his father. So not fair and I am bitter over it these days.


#29

I understand what you’re going through, I hope it gets better for all of you soon. It’s not fair to any of you. hugs


#30

It is with great sadness that I inform you all that Nikki stabbed me above my left chest and have a 4 inch gash on forearm. She took off and on the run past 2 days after this happened. The police have a warrant out for an order of commital. I know I can’t fix her. I know I can no longer help her. The voices are in charge and they were in full force.
She even called the hospital letting them know that her meds needed adjustment. It was 3 weeks and 1 week to go before her next shot. And in a matter of 2 days it went from great to stabbing.
I don’t know where she is. I will pray for her that nothing bad happens and that she gets into the hospital. She needs to be institutionalized no more 1-2-3-4 weeks in psych ward.


#31

Wow. I’m truly sorry. I hope you get better soon and that she eventually finds the help that she needs. Just focus on yourself and try to get better. You should get some counseling to process all the trauma you’ve been through. One day you’ll be able to love again and move on from all of this. I don’t know you, but I know you’re someone who really cares and tried your best. You’re a very strong person, I wish you a pleasant recovery. :heart: hugs


#32

I’m so sorry that happened to you - and to her.

My son is has never been violent with me, but he can go from well to very sick in a short period of time too, so I know how fast things can get bad.

Maybe this time she’ll get the help she needs. I hope so anyway.


#33

Thank you
I have been trying to recover and at same time shedding tears for her and these damn voices that control her.


#34

I understand. Do you have anybody who can stay with you while you’re in the hospital or visit you at home? It would be good if you had someone you could talk to and be there for you, like a family member or friend.


#35

So sorry to hear this @NikkiSam, I am hoping you are healing and that they have been able to find your GF and she is getting some treatment. Wishing you peace, friend…and stamina for the choices you face at this time.


#36

I am so sorry, but thank you for posting the reality of what we deal with as our family/friends struggle with this horrible illness.


#37

UPDATE
Nikki was found 2 days later at a Shelter for Women a mile away. The sheriff picked her up and they took her to the ER which then led to the Psych Ward. I can not express to you in words how so angry and frustrating it is when these Drs Nurses Social Workers all think after 15 min - 1 hour of time they spend with her that they know better then someone who is with her 24/7. I thank God that I have the court appointed advocate on my side and I express my concerns to her and she then tried to tell the staff what’s really going on. They are all fooled by the multiple personalities she has it down packed.
Luckily I have hidden camera footage of some of her behaviors where you can actually see the different personalities how they act, speak, and dress. The camera footage along with only audio of her taking an hour plus shower where she tends to really have verbal fights with the voices. You would think there was actually people in there with her.
Sorry I’m just going on an on. The update is it’s been a month I have recovered and she has been stable and coming home today.
Hope you are all doing well. I find a great relief to be able to come here say the truth and not hold it in and let resentment build up inside.
Have a great Monday


#38

Thank you for update. I"m glad you are recovered and hope the best for your partner.


#39

Yet another update and asking for help/advice.
Saturday night June 11 she woke up in a rage at 2 am. I was watching tv to decompress myself after a stressful day. She accused me of hiding her kids from her. Now before I go further she has no children. I took her to Gyno and she even told her that she has no signs of being pregnant or even having a child. This 2am rage attack came from the voices in her head telling her this. She became violent and broke a small (tv dinner table) over my legs then took the leg of the wood and broke my wrist. Since I have my cell with me at all times. I said Siri call 911. She became more enraged and tried to stop me from calling at that point she heard the operator and she switched saying help pleasehe is attacking me. She told her go into bedroom lock the door. That’s what nikki did. Then the operator talked to me and said if I can get out and wait for police. They already know us and didn’t believe her. She came and was arrested again for Domestic Violence with intent to injure.
How can I get her institutionalized the cops are worried they will show up and find me dead. The legal system has to be able to do more.
We live in Iowa. If anyone knows of a way to get her into a MHI Mental Health Institute please let me
know.

Wishing you and your family all the best as we all deal with loved ones that have this demon of a disease.

Sam


#40

I’m the last person to ever say this, but I don’t think it’s safe for you to live with her anymore - or maybe for her to live with anyone unsupervised.

She is clearly a danger to others, and arresting her is like putting a bandaid on an aneurysm.

I’m not an expert in this area, and I’m certainly not an expert in anything that happens in Iowa, but I think the legal system there must have some kind of duty to commit her.

If it was me, I’d start with the prosecutor or district attorney. The cops know, but maybe they don’t. Explain the situation and push for court-ordered treatment, inpatient to start.

It sounds like she meets the criteria for involuntary treatment as explained here:
http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/iowa

I also see this link for Polk County that says their office is there to help families & caregivers with the commitment process. Maybe your area has the same thing, whether or not they advertise it on a website.

https://www.polkcountyiowa.gov/attorney/civil-division/mental-health-commitments/

If you can’t get her help, you have to look out for your own safety, and that may mean that you can no longer live with her.


#41

I’m so sorry you had to go through this.
Where is your daughter, now?
I don’t know about housing options for the mentally ill, but I agree w previous poster that she cannot stay w you.